On 10/27/2015 11:28 AM, Sean Fidler wrote:
Brand new winches "can" be expensive? Can be? Wow! There is a plug.
I hear they are well over 100k.

Ummm...last January's "Soaring" magazine; 3 different brand-new spectra
winches from Roman's Design: $97,500, $65,500, $27,500; also lists
build-it-yourself kits. Having seen his offerings at 2 different SSA
Conventions, they appear to me both solidly designed and solid.
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Or more! I have heard $250k plus for an
advanced european system... I also hear insurance is
not cheap either.

I believe everything I hear, too. Critical independent thought can be SO much
effort...
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When is the last US purchase of a new winch system?

Ask the club at Jacumba.
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What was the price? How many have been purchased in the last 10 years?
What are clubs paying to maintain new and old winch systems? What are
clubs paying to convert them from wire to spectra? I know of one club that
is letting their winch rust rather than pay to upgrade.

I have nothing against winches. I think they are fine. But a car and a
rope (auto-towing) is the cheapest, easiest to train method of launching a
glider, period. Winches are more expensive and far more complex. These
are simple facts.

"Don't confuse me with the facts once my mind is made up," comes to mind...
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I don't care, but this thread has been entirely hijacked by a bunch of
winch people. For what purpose? Why the hyping of winches? Are you kids
afraid of being displaced by auto towing? Why? Are you getting a "spiff"
from the winch manufacturer perhaps?

Yeah, it's gotta be that last bit! There's so much profit in the manufacture
and huckstering of winches that the manufacturers can afford to hijack RAS
threads. BWA-A-A-A HA HA HA-A-A--A!!!
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My argument is that if I was a 20 year old and had the right situation
(airport size, etc), I would rather have my buddy tow me up with his jeep
for free than pay $40 for a tow.

Heh. Two rather big "If's" huh? As for "his jeep", one of those cosmoline
jobbies of yore? Advise your buddy: 1) not to say "Watch this!" 2) to be
strapped securely in, and 3) ideally to have a full roll cage. Don't bother to
ask if he's on his parent's car insurance policy and if auto-towing is
covered, cuz it'll just harsh your buzz. Just sayin...
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Now, why not expand this independence to
everyone whenever possible. Another benefit of auto-towing is not having
to wait in line or deal with a political soaring club environment. Perhaps
interesting to some.

You think the politics of clubs is a lot? Try the politics of interacting with
airport managements!
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Anyway, as usual, I couldn't care less about this thread anymore. The
forest is once again lost for the trees.

As usual...

Bob W.