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Old September 14th 18, 01:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan Walker
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Posts: 10
Default Too many accidents

Just to correct a couple of misconceptions about the ASK21 and spinning.

It WILL spin without the use of a spin kit, it just needs a rearward CofG.
Normally (but not always) with an instructor on board the CofG will be to
far forward but once the pupil goes solo then that can be a very different
matter! Any talk that an aircraft is unspinable is the type of thing that
can lull trainees into a false sense of security.

As for the comment that it make a good spin trainer with the spin weights I
would have to disagree. Its spin entry and recovery are inconsistent even
at the same CofG. If you look at the updated flight manual even the spin
recovery is non-standard. Note the point that says
"Warning: Fall forward stick may retard or even prevent spin recovery"

https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/..._TM23_E_HB.pdf


If your not careful you are training pilots with a recovery technique that
will not work for all other aircraft.


At 08:41 14 September 2018, Steve Thompson wrote:
Referring to the ASK21 TM4b, publicly available on the
AS site. I see on page 4 : "By following the spin ballast
table a c.g. of approx. 406 mm (16 inch) is set in for the
flight."

As far as I can tell from other data, this is not the aft
limit. I believe the aft limit is 469mm.

The USAF spinning tests are well documented in the
technical note flight manual and discusses inertia effects
as well as just CG position effects. 406mm is aft enough.



At 23:32 13 September 2018, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 08:56:05 -0700 (PDT), krasw
wrote:

maanantai 10. syyskuuta 2018 16.54.53 UTC+3

kirjoitti:
Un-spinable? You might want to watch this and look

up the USAF report
conducted on the spin characteristics of the ASK-21.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXH6XDxQdPY

ASK21 is unspinable unless you equip with spin kit

designed to move cg
well aft of normal limits. Without this kit you cannot

spin 21.

One addition:
The spin weights put the CG to the normal aft limit, but

not beyond
it.
This is the same CG that you would have if a light pilot

flies without
a copilot.

With the spin weights the ASK-21 is an excellent spin

trainer.


Cheers
Andreas