If the price is right they would be a great glider - with or without FES.
Whether they would be competitive in an un-handicapped comp is another
issue. (The last 20% of price probably gives 1% of performance!)
Tom


At 22:34 04 November 2013, Sean F F2 wrote
Tom,

With all due respect ;-), I believe the Lak17b's you flew against in
Uvalde=
were Lak17b FES models (Front Engine Sustainer,
http://lak.lt/index.php?op=
tion=3Dcom_content&task=3Dview&id=3D23&Itemid=3D1 36). =20

The 17b FES has a folding propeller system on its nose which, even though
f=
airly slick, still has a few square inches of square structure in the
airfl=
ow as well as two 18' propeller blades. This is especially disruptive
when=
at higher speeds in flying locations such as Uvalde Texas.

The FES version of the 17b should actually have a decent handicap for
this
=
reason, not a penalty over a pure glider as the US rules currently. The
US=
handicap committee has not thought this one out very well in my opinion.

=
The 17b FES should have a fairly decent handicap advantage over the pure
ve=
rsion, not vice versa based purely on the gross weight.

The pure version of the 17b would produce a different story from you I
imag=
ine. I believe it would give a 29 a hell of a problem based on the way
the=
Lak17a performs against them this year at the US Nationals, 5th place...
(=
http://www.ssa.org/ContestResults.asp?
contestId=3D2224&ContestDetailId=3D72=
39&ContestName=3D18+Meter+Nationals).=20

Also the pilots flying the 17b's in Uvalde were, admittedly, not the
"creme=
of the Uvalde crop." They were there to have fun mainly and to show off
t=
he new FES system. If you put two evenly matched pilots into a 29 and a
pu=
re 17b, I imagine it would come down to the pilot and not the glider.
Not
=
a bad thing considering the Lak17b is a far less expensive glider, even
wit=
h the impressive FES system added.

Its all about fun, and arguing about glider performance for me is just
that=
, fun. So don't take this too seriously. I think the Lak is not given a
f=
air shake by many. It is a very nice glider for the money and worth
seriou=
s consideration by those looking for a versatile 15/18 and now even a 21
me=
ter glider which has the option to use FES.

Sean
F2=20


On Monday, November 4, 2013 5:00:38 AM UTC-5, Tom Claffey wrote:
I flew beside the two Lak17Bs at Uvalde.
=20
In my opinion the ASG29 (thanks Al) I flew was better.
=20
I am not an Aeronautical engineer but to my eye the winglet and=20
=20
winglet/wing interface just looked wrong. Dr Maughmer or others
could=20
=20
probably fix that.
=20
A 21M version at the right wing loading would be possibly good per $
but
=20
the=20
=20
EB29 will eat it up in weak weather and the JS1 eat it up everywhere
else=
..
=20
IMO
=20
Tom
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
t 21:35 20 October 2013, Sean F F2 wrote:
=20
Damn right it will be! =3D20
=20

=20
I finished 5th overall in a lak17a (that's right, lak17"A"!) this year
a=
t
=20
1=3D
=20
8m nationals. I am a very average, inexperienced and essentially new
=20
conte=3D
=20
st pilot. I seemed to keep up with 29's pretty well. I imagine the
17b
=20
(w=3D
=20
ith its ability to to up to 1300 gross weight) will be far, FAR more
=20
"even"=3D
=20
with the 29 that the 17a is. The 17a was initially designed as a 15m
=20
and
=20
=3D
=20
is therefore limited to 1103 gross weight max.
=20

=20
http://www.ssa.org/ContestResults.asp?
=20
contestId=3D3D2224&ContestDetailId=3D3D72=3D
=20
39&ContestName=3D3D18+Meter+Nationals
=20

=20
From what I have heard, the 17b is far more advanced than the 17a in
=20
almost=3D
=20
all key aspects. The wing is entirely redesigned as 15/18 and not
just
=20
15=3D
=20
with 18 extensions as an afterthought as the 17a was... The airfoils
=20
are
=20
=3D
=20
similar to the Diana 2. So I think it will do extremely well in 18
mete=
r
=20
c=3D
=20
ompetition when in the hands of a strong pilot. =3D20
=20

=20
In 15 meter configuration, the 17a is very good, similar to an ASW 27
=20
which=3D
=20
it was designed to beat. The 17b is almost certainly better 15 meter
=20
conf=3D
=20
iguration that the 17a with an entirely new wing winglets, new
airfoils,
=20
a
=20
=3D
=20
redesigned vertical stab, rudder and all new horizontal stab. =3D20
=20

=20
In 21 meter I suspect it will be very good (60:1, similar to the JS1)
=20
other=3D
=20
wise why would they bother? Will it compete with a Quintus or a
=20
Concordia?=3D
=20
I highly doubt it, but it would be a hell of a glider for the $$$...
=20

=20
Sincerely,
=20

=20
Sean Fidler
=20
F2, Lak17a #114
=20