You shouldn't spin more than 3 turns unless you're practicing for aerobatic
flight.

In a case as you describe, application of full PRO-SPIN controls for a few
seconds should have been performed prior to a second attempt at recovery.
And recovery should be rudder and stick at the same time (as recomended by
Dick Johnson after his testing) or with the Rudder leading the recovery by 1
second or so (as recomended by the Puchacz's POH).
Commencing recovery with the Stick first is not recomended, and it may in
fact retard recovery significantly.

Also, chances are that you didn't have the stick and/or rudder against the
stops, for simple reasons such as Trim not being Neutral (as recommended by
the manual), or the Ailerons might not have been Neutral (as they should),
or the CG may have been slightly off-limits.
The same things would cause similar behaviour in any other modern training
glider.

In a regular spin, with 3 or less rotations, some of these things are less
of an issue, but they have to be observed anyway.

Recovery however has to be the same way in a fully developed spin :
-Anti-spin rudder to the stop
-After 1 second or less, release back pressure on the stick or even move it
forward, all-the-way if you have to.
Rotation should stop.
If it doesn't, apply full pro-spin controls, verify the ailerons in neutral
(stick not in any of the sides) and trim in neutral, then repeat recovery.



"Tim Shea" wrote in message
m...
I love to spin. It's exciting. I took aerobatic training with Wayne
Handley and was taught spin recoveries by him.

I have direct experience spinning the Puchacz at Minden. This is what
I remember from my experience. Your mileage may vary.
With friends (usually lighter than me) in the front, I spun it while
sitting in the back seat more than a dozen times. The CG was within
the published range and I didn't have any trouble with simple
recovery- stick centered and forward and rudder away from the
direction of rotation. Worked great.
I should mention that I used to be 50 lbs heavier than I am now, but
still in the published range for the plane.
During the training towards my instructors rating, I spun the Puch
twice with my instructor. The first 2 or so rotation spin I was able
to recover normally, no sweat. The second manuver was quite different.
I was asked to let the spin develop a little deeper for the second.
After 4 or so rotations, the nose seemed to float up and the rotation
*seemed* to slow considerably. I remember thinking that this is cool!
Kind of like floating. When it was time for the recovery I applied the
control inputs I'd been taught (as specified above) and much to my
surprise, nothing different happened.....for a long time. I estimate
that we completed another 5+ rotations nose high before it broke,
rolled over and recovered. I had the stick centered and against the
front stop with the rudder also pegged away from the rotation. We
recovered with several (4 or 5) thousand feet under us (we'd been
playing at cloudbase at about 15K).
Once on the ground, we discussed this incident in the grumpy bar for
at least an hour. I (and he) decided to never spin the Puch again. I
didn't. I doubt he did either.
I had heard of this happening before. I assumed that it was from
operation outside of the design envelope. Apparently I was wrong.
John Shelton probably said it best: "On my own as a test pilot, I will
certainly get killed". I felt like a dumb-ass for quite a while (more
than usual) after that.