In article ,
Derek Copeland wrote:

Once upon a time there was the K13. It was/is a good
basic trainer that is safe and suitable for all basic
training needs, but over the years it has become less
suitable for teaching pilots to fly modern high performance
sailplanes. It is also draughty and noisy (my voice
usually gives up after a day's instructing in one due
to having to shout over the airleaks coming in around
the canopy) and not good at accomodating tall or heavy
pilots.

Yeah, I'm 1.8m (which is not that much) and 110 kg (ahem) and I have
trouble with full aileron in the K13.



Then Schleicher replaced it with the K21 which in many
respects is much better, but it won't spin very convincingly,
if at all, which cuts out a very important element
of the training syllabus.

Nice glider otherwise. As far as I know there are none here in NZ, but
I've flown ones in Arizona (Turf) and California (Cal City). Very
pleasant, though doesn't seem to perform as well as the Grob twins.


On the other hand, most of the East European trainers
spin far too well and too easily and can kill people.
Can't comment on American trainers, because I have
never flown one.

Me either, but the Blanik is a pretty good East European trainer. Same
sort of performance as the K13, spins well (the spin entries are
especially convincing from quite a "normal" attitude with the "wrong"
but gradual and gentle control inputs. Stops spinning well, every
single time.

You can still buy them new.


The advanced training requirement is very well covered
by such gliders as the Duo Discus, DG500/1000, ASH
25, but there doesn't seem to a modern equivalent of
the K13 for basic training! Unless anybody knows of
one that is?

Our club moved from Blaniks to Grob twins (original retractable Twin
Astirs, bought well used) about ten years ago, and they've served us
well, along with a Janus for more advanced training. We're now in the
process of moving to fixed undercarriage DG1000's, which appear to be
able to do everything the Grobs can do, everything the Janus can do
(except teach you flaps) and everything the Blanik can do (spins and
general aero).



Could I suggest the following specification:

1) Safe and easy to fly
2) Simple fixed gear undercarriage
3) Easy ground handling (our club is now buying retractable
gear DG1000s, but they are a complete pain on the ground)
4) Fully aerobatic, including good spinning characteristics
5) Must be capable of flying all the exercises in the
training syllabus
6) Enough performance to make reasonable cross-country
flights, but not so much as to make it difficult to
get students down.
7) Small enough for easy hangarage - wingspan not more
than 17 or 18 metres.

Other than the fully aerobatic I think you just described the PW6. Or
the Puchacz (but I really don't know if I'd want to do extended spinning
in them, given the history).

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------