From: (Steve Richter)
Date: 7/14/2003 21:52 Pacific Daylight Time

(Mike Weeks) wrote in message

From: (Steve Richter)
Date: 7/13/2003 19:04 Pacific Daylight Time

Cristol says that by the time the helicopters arrive the MTBs have
identified the ship as American.

It's suggested you really crack Cristol's book, or at least d/l the time
line
at:

http://libertyincident.com/timeline.htm

and check the entry for 1520 Sinai.

Mike,

I dont think you have your facts right on this matter. At least the
facts as cristol reports them in his book. On page 57 of the TLI,
middle of the page:

Cristol tells us that at 1451 ( 10-15 minutes after the start of the
naval incidenting of the Liberty) the MTB reports that the ship may be
russian "based on writing on back of vessel". An order is made to
dispatch a tug boat from Ashdod. Then the next para starts:

"MTB 203 then recovered one of the damaged life rafts .... The raft
had "US Navy painted on it. At this point the crew of MTB 203
concluded the ship was American. CDR McGonagle testified that immed
after the ship was struck by the torpedo the torpedo boats milled
around astern of the ship at a range of 500 to 800 yards. One of the
boats signaled by flashing light in English 'Do you require
assistance?' The Liberty log reports indicate that the first offer of
help from the MTBs occurred at 1503. ...."

That's one MTB which picks up one of the life rafts. Based on the detailed
info available it's possible Cristol jumped ahead a bit on when 203 scooped up
the damaged life raft. Again see the time line: 1540, even though that would
seem a bit late, but as recorded by NSA late in the 1508-1512 time period: "815
to Pagoda: From behind it [Liberty] several uninflated boats were seen." The
1520 entry is the time recorded for when Haifa is informed by the MTBs (only
Oren's boat which is doing the reporting.)

But for the sake of discussion, suppose that 203 believes the ship to be
American in the minutes prior to the helos arriving ...

All this takes place before the IAF helicopters arrive on the scene at
around 1508.

Interesting that the MTBs are able to signal in english, yet they
mistake the english writing on the back of the ship for Russian.

Morse Code is not "English." The transcript should have reflected that;
there's no "English" signaling, as there's no "Russian" signaling via light or
flag (unless it's encoded for internal use.) This is signaling via
international understood morse code. Why the word "English" is even used
escapes me.

This is all very perplexing because once the helicopters arrive on the
scene, the MTB crew, presumably Moshe Oren, dispute the statement by
815 (helicopter) that the ship is not dangerous and they tell 815 that
the hull markings of "GTR-5" means nothing.

No MTB has a Jane's for heavens sake. Why do you think "GTR-5" would mean
something to a couple of Israeli sailors which would not have a clue about all
the possible hull numbers of all the possible foreign navies sailing in the
Med? Besides, if you've read the sworn testimony, Liberty's Chief Thompson
indicates that what was being signaled in the aftermath of the attack wasn't
"GTR- 5."

MW
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"As soon as movement begins, so does the fog of war" - Edward N. Luttwak