Woody,
You're expecting a comprehensive report with historical accuracy. What
you're reading though is an intelligence report where SPEAR is reporting
only on the verifiable incidents a short time later without the benefit of
your historical sources. Make sense?

Explained that way, it does.

The document isn't inaccurate. It's probably just incomplete.

That doesn't make sence (either they're reporting, or not reporting at all),
but, well, OK... If nothing else it's good to have another opinion - that's
why I asked.

Re. "conspiracy": I wouldn't say there is a consipiracy. I'd only say
that I
simply can't understand why should State Dept. keep USN documents back.
Can
you say what could be a reason?

I could, but then I'd have to kill you.

Well, that's also an answer.

Yep; the USN witnessed the fight. Unclear is only if they actually saw it
or
tracked it on their radars. AFAIK, they did not notice ejection. Two days
later the pilot was found deeper inside the Hormuz Straits by other group
of
USN vessels.

I can nearly guarantee that nobody "eye-witnessed" it. The altitude and
ranges that these things occur at--especially in the daytime--make them
difficult to keep track of visually.

Fair enough: USN warships usually held a position away from the
Iraqi-declared "War Zone" along the Iranian coast.

SNIP
From what I've learned so far on this and the previous two days there was
a
small SAG centered around USS Guam (LPH-9) in the area between Khark
Island
and Bahrain. What I'm sure of is that crews of these ships have
withnessed
the Iraqi three-wave strike against Khark, flown in the early morning,
morning and afternoon of 18 March 1988, then after the success of the
first
Iraqi strike specific skipper of one of USN warships declared the Iraqi
attack for, "deplorable by nature", and subsequently the whole SAG turned
around. When the next Iraqi wave (flown around 09:00hr AM local time)
appeared the IRIAF interceptors were airborne and the USN warships
recorded - I don't know yet by which means (if I would know this I would
not
need any documents from ONI) - firings of five AIM-54s.

You're assuming. Based on the SPEAR message, SOME Navy/intel platform
detected those firings. We don't know how or from what.

That's right - even if I wouldn't say that there is a question "from what"
(there is only one platform capable of firing AIM-54s).

BTW, it's funny the USN credits IRIAF F-14s with a kill against a Mirage on
this day, while the IRIAF isn't crediting itself with anything similar. Also
funny is that about "deplorable by nature" - which wasn't an assumption, but
something I've got from somebody who was on the bridge of one of the ships
in question. Now, one of logical questions here is why would a USN skipper
declare an Iraqi attack for "deplorable by nature", but I guess if you'd
answer that one you'd have to kill me too... ? ;-)

(I know, I know, this is thinn....but, I need some ideas at least so to see
where could I continue to dig).

"John Keeney" wrote in message
...

"Tom Cooper" wrote in message
...
For example, the only day in "early Feb 88" on which F-14s engaged Mirage
F.1s in two different engagements over the Persian Gulf was 9th of
February.
That, however, is not a date I'd describe as "early February".

Why not? If you break the month evenly in to"early", "mid" and "late"
(that is, "thirds") the 9th falls in to the first third of the month or
the "early" part.

I wouldn't do that: that's why I asked if people who work or used to work
with USN would.

Different people think different way.

Also, if you can see the situation from my perspective: air combats on 2nd
and 5th February weren't that much different regarding odds or outcome (the
first was fought between 14 Iraqis and a single F-14; the other between six
Mirages and a single F-14). So, from my standpoint, such a statement can
easily cause a confusion.

--
************************************************** ***********************
Tom Cooper
Freelance aviation journalist

Author:
- Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S7875

- Arab MiG-19 and MiG-21 Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S6550

- Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S6585

- African MiGs
http://www.acig.org/afmig/

- Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
************************************************** ***********************