During my experiments with the wrap-around ASI,
I too started with the controls in a clasic spin entry,
and felt the stall, and then ended up in what
I could not discern was a spin or a spiral.
So I'd release the elevator pressure (assumed it
was a spin) and recover from the dive.

I did spins both before and after this in the
Blanik (with a non-wrap ASI) and they seemed
very easy to tell the difference from a spiral, and
quite easy to sustain as a spin for 4 turns or whatever
you wanted, with a subsequent quite well defined
spin recovery.

The spins in the other glider were at fairly forward
CG, so
after looking at it, I wasn't that surprised it didn't
stay in a spin.

I think Hartley was correct, that spins and spirals
ought
to be part of a flight review. From the report, however,
it seems this pilot got spin entry training. In all
of my spin entry training, this means crossed controls,
and a full stall, with recovery by flaps/dive brakes/power

to correct position, ailerons neutral, rudder opposite,
stick
pressure released or briefly forward to break the stall.

I can see value in doing full 2 turn spins left and
right,
however, instead of just spin entries (which can be
too mild,
or not give a good sense of spin vs. spiral indications).

I must think, however, that actually doing this in
some gliders
may be either prohibited or may damage the glider or
actually cause structural failure.

A slow reaction with flaps by the student might be
a
big problem. Likewise, practicing spins and recoveries
with
the engine extended in a motorglider might be
prohibited or damaging, but this might be exactly
the training needed to prevent a 180 turn back to the
airport from becoiming a stall/spin for example.

And how many instructors regularly spin a Nimbus or
a DG1000 with extensions or the like?
Honestly I don't know, since
I generally fly 18m or less spans myself...

What a shame to lose your own son though.
Geesh, what a tragedy.

At 13:24 21 June 2005, Stefan wrote:
Don Johnstone wrote:

It is to be
hoped that some of the above passage is the result
of iffy translation, if not it is a very strange sequence
of events.

Perfectly correct translation. No strange sequence
at all.

The report conclusions do not help. I am no expert

Yes, they do. Know your airplane, know the emergency
procedures and
particlarly know its behaviour in regading to spins.
Practice spin
recoveries, practice spiral dive recoveries. And any
pilot who is even
tempted to pull back the stick in a spin is not airworthy.

on the 4DM but is it possible to exceed VNe in a spin?

Certainly not. But many gliders will not stay in the
spin but go into a
spiral dive. Which was obviously the case here.

Stefan

Mark J. Boyd