On Nov 1, 4:05*pm, Frank wrote:
On Nov 1, 3:49*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:



On Nov 1, 12:01*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote: On 11/1/2010 12:59 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:

*On 11/1/2010 6:50 AM, bildan wrote:

From "AVweb":
[snip]
For situational awareness in a VFR environment, the bigger Nextgen
issues are completely irrelevant. *What is important is that we can see
other aircraft and they, and ATC, can see us. *That part of ADS-B works.
* The challenge is to get the price down so that people will actually
buy it before they are forced to in 2020 or beyond.

"That part of ADS-B works?"... What "part" of the things you were
talking about works and do you mean like they works now? And where? Or
are you talking about works in concept.

The FAA surveillance service part of the ADS-B deployment is being
rolled out. Besides Philly terminal services (and GOMEX?). I know
Florida has ADS-B terminal services coverage but it that essential
service and critical services within those terminals? And the enroute
segment has critical and essential as well? Knowing where there there
is FAA ATC surveillance coverage today via ADS-B is pretty important
qualifier in the claim "..and ATC, can see us...That part of ADS-B
works.". I believe the FAA claims those terminal and enroute
deployments for critical services will be complete in 2013. But the
details/progress on the FAA "critical services" surveillance
integration in the ADS-B technology works is exactly one of the
concerns in the IG report. e.g. see the section "Integrating ADS-B
with FAA’s Existing Automation Systems for Controllers Could Delay Its
Implementation" in the report.

And the "we can see other aircraft" part only works if the other
aircraft is properly equipped and that is hampered by all the other
adoption problems, costs, STC/TSO etc. that slow adoption in the GA
fleet, enough so that you don't have Metcalf's law working in your
favor to help build adoption.

Like above for ADS-B survelience.. where are the FAA critical service
actually deployed now so that ADS-R services are available so a UAT
equipped aircraft can see a 1090ES equipped aircraft? That's another
"critical service" so not in today's en-route essential service
rollouts. OK so for now the best we have in those regions is TIS-B,
which SSR terminal radars pump out data to TIS-B today?

The issues around the dual-link layers in the USA that mean at low
altitudes (like in the traffic pattern of many GA airports) and in
other areas an UAT and 1090ES equipped aircraft can't see each other
even if fully equipped with data-in and out devices. That is one of
the issues that make ADS-B data-in adoption problematic in GA aircraft
and something that has worried AOPA and others. So I would not claim
that part of ADS-B "works" either--not without lots of caveats.

I recommend anybody interested to read the report itself athttp://www.oig.dot.gov/library-item/5415andmake your own
conclusions.

Darryl

All one really has to do is look at the FAA's track record in
implementing big systems. *It is absolutely dismal (anyone remember
the FAA Microwave Landing Systems fiasco from a couple of decade
ago?). *If the FAA said they had something in and operating at my
local airport, I would be absolutely amazed if whatever was supposed
to be there actually arrived within another 2-3 years, and
flabbergasted if it worked at all when it did.

Depending on an FAA schedule and an FAA assessment of capabilities is
demonstrably ridiculous. *We may well find that Power FLARM doesn't
arrive next April as advertised, but I'll take anyone's wager at 10:1
odds that it will arrive and work long before ADS-B has anything
practical for glider-on-glider or GA-on-glider or glider-on-GA
collision avoidance.

TA

I remember MLS becase it was technology from Australia where I grew up
and was talked about all through the late 1970s etc and the next big
thing in aviation. See http://www.airwaysmuseum.com/MLS%20I...Stern%2078.htm

Not FAA really but do people remember the Bendix/King VDL Datalink
receivers (confusingly called FIS-B as well)? The weather etc. data
system that was supposed to appeal to GA that had poor low-level
coverage and nobody used and was recently turned off (https://
http://www.bendixking.com/wingman/se...talinkweather).
And now ADS-B FIS-B is effectively an updated version of the same
thing, but with basic graphical data for free (the Bendix/King service
provided graphical data for a fee, text data free). And ADS-B FIS-B is
supposed to be an attraction to GA users to adopt UAT. Except users
who really want this are probalby already using XM Weather (at a
pretty reasonable fee - and if they are wiling to pay a fee they
probalby want it hard enough they likely want it to work everywhere)
and XM Weather does not have issues like lack of coverage at low
altitudes/remote areas or on the ground before flight. Still I do like
the SkyRadar's iPad application over WiFi in the cockpit to their UAT
receiver--but will suffers for some people like not being more
integrated with a navigation system or flight bag app. Maybe over time
it will becomes trivial to add this capability in other systems for
very low cost.

Darryl