Hi Ben,

I have had a look at some FES (flapped) gliders myself. I tried to consider any reliable non internal combustion engine. Especially FES system is IMO a big step up in safety for flying gliders. The FES system is really well thought out.


Below wall of text is highly subjective.

For the FES: Ventus 2cxa FES seems like a really nice plane. Not too sure if I like the narrow fuse design. Has had a bit of comp. success (FES version)with Luca and Tilo flying it. I believe you might be able to get a Ventus 2cxa FES within half a year or so but better contact Biggo Berger or your local importer. I would not buy a Ventus 2cxa myself since the "new Ventus" has been announced which would not be a good thing for resale value V2cxa FES.

Brings me to the "New Ventus"FES. Looks sexy should perform good. Bad thing is 2.5-3 years wait before delivery. Obviously not proven yet. Is likely to be another 10k in euro's more expense as well.

LAK 17b looks like a great ship. Great to have the 21m option as well available. Should be the cheapest option by far. Delivery should be quick. Last few months I have seen 2 Lak17b FES for sale on segelflug.de classifieds. Think asking price was in region of 135k euro for 21m and 120k euro for a new a factory 18m Lak 17b FES. Reason for me for not ordering one is the old fuselage/canopy design and just my inexperience with the plane. 21m option seems nice, but IMO looks wrong on plane with extremely bendy wing. Factory did change hands a few years ago as well. Some people who visited the factory recently were not quite so impressed. Not too sure about resale value of the Lak 17b FES.

HPH Shark looks like a really nice plane as well. I did not read any negative stories about this plane expect for the trimmer too quickly unintentionally moved which they fixed. FES seems to really work on this fuselage as the fuse was already slightly longer. So rudder pedals can still be adjusted as far as on non-FES plane (I believe some FES planes have slightly shorter pedal adjustment). Fuselage is for sure the most roomy of the planes available. Quality of HPH is really good (if not the best). Hph has just opened a new factory where the planes are being build. Price wise the Shark is slightly cheaper than the Ventus 2cxa but not much. Delivery times at the moment are Autumn 2016. Very easy to fly. Future might come out with 20m wing tips (moulds have been made).
Bad things about the plane are the competition results. I did not find many Sharks winning international competitions.

Silent 2 seems quite nice as well. Great bonus to have the self launcher. Obviously bad thing is the performance of the 13.5 vs 18m. The reason I won't buy one is the price. For less than 10k Euro more you can buy a Ventus 2cxa FES or Shark FES. Another bad thing is license requirements at the moment as it is a ultra light plane. This would be resolved in most of Europe with EASE license.

Another thing to budget for with FES is the battery replacement. 7k euro + VAT in europe. Batteries could last longer than 10 years. But this depends on the treatment of battery by the user. If you don't use batteries for med long term best to keep at storage voltage and charge in 2 hrs when flying.



GP14SE (non-FES) looks like a great plane as well. People who have visited reported very high quality work. If performance is as they put in their specs. 1:45 it could be a game changer. At the moment no track record yet of their elec. self launch system. Price is 25k in euro cheaper than 18m Ventus 2cxa FES and Shark FES.

Second hand Antares 20E would as well be a great short term option as the second hand price of a 20E is similar to a new 18m FES plane. 20E has higher performance and is very reliable as well. Batteries if treated well should last 20+ years. Price for new batteries in the region of 24k euro + vat in Europe.









On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 10:36:06 PM UTC, wrote:
I'm considering the purchase of an 18m FES equipped sailplane, and would like to hear thoughts and opinions about the various options available. I'm seeking a cross country machine with long legs and a highly reliable sustainer. An 18m FES sailplane should fit that requirement nicely.

I'm a somewhat green pilot, but in the year or so before a new glider could be manufactured and delivered, I will have accumulated some more experience in my club's DG-505 and DG-1000. I have eliminated the Ventus 2cx as a possibility, due to the aircraft's reputation as being unsuitable for low-time pilots. In the 18m class, that leaves the following gliders that are available with a FES system:

- Discus 2c
- Lak-17B
- HpH 304S Shark

All three appear to have similar performance, as best I can tell from published data. I don't plan to be racing any time soon, so a difference of a few points in best glide ratio is not significant to me.

According to the flight reports that I've read, all three feature docile handling that should not be a problem for a low-time pilot. The Lak-17B and HpH Shark have flaps. I have thoroughly researched the apparently controversial issue of whether flapped ships are suitable for low-time pilots, and am convinced that they are more of an asset than a liability.

In the interests of staying on topic, let's not make this thread about flaps or the FES. These topics have already been thoroughly discussed on RAS. Please start a new thread or add to an old thread if you wish to discuss further.

I'll list some of the pros and cons of each ship that I can see, but would love to hear if anyone disagrees with them, or has anything to add.

Discus 2c
- Pros: Reputation for excellent handling. Optional GRS. Possibly higher resale value and ease of selling due to its popularity.
- Cons: No flaps.

Lak-17B
- Pros: Lower cost (better value) than the other two. Half the lead time of the other two (6 vs 12 mo).
- Cons: No safety cockpit.

HpH Shark
- Pros: Good looking (purely my opinion).
- Cons: Every flight review I've read says it handles well but... every reviewer had at least one negative thing to say about the handling. Hard to draw conclusions, but some doubt as been cast in my mind.

By now it may be clear which one I'm leaning toward. However, I wouldn't have posted this if my mind wasn't open to others' opinions, so I welcome and appreciate your thoughts. In the end, the decision will come down to what's most important to me: safety and handling. I guess what I'm really seeking is a double-check on my thinking regarding this rather significant purchase.

Cheers,
Ben