On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:04:48 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:


"Mike H" wrote in message
...
I've stayed out of this so far, but....
I'd say the biggest determination of a successful
education is the involvement of the parent(s).

That helps, but, for example, learning to fly will go no where if your
instructor doesn;t know what makes and airplane fly.


Next comes
the child themselves and the type of school is last. (There
are good and bad teachers in all kinds of schools.)

Again...the basis of human learning and knowledge has not been a part of the
schools of education (other than pragmatic guessing games with the kids a
guinna pigs) for a couple generations.


My 'credentials' are purely to have raised two sons, educated
through the public school system. One of which now has
dual BS degrees and the other is about to get his Phd from
Emory Univ. That, and a lot of observing why some
children had problems and others did not....

Have you ever notice what's referred to as the "educated idiot"? I'm sure we
all have. Ever wonder why that is?

Tom, I've stayed out of this so far because you always seem to be on
the edge when it comes to "discussion", and most responses always seem
to degenerate to name calling. But like some others in this group,
I'm married to a career teacher and this gives us an insight that
should be beneficial to this discussion. Guess what the starting
salary for teachers is up here in Vermont?: about $18,000 - $20,000.

Mike has it absolutely correct in that the single greatest influence
in the development and education of the child is not the teacher or
the school, it's the parents.

If the parents do not interact with the child, or disparage the school
in front of them, or "go to bat" for the child when he/she misbehaves
in school rather than make the attempt to correct the behavior that
caused the disruption in the first place (MY Johnny wouldn't beat up
anyone) then there is no hope for that child to gain a viable
education in that school no matter who is teaching, and that kid is
going to have problems throughout school.

In addition, my wife used to meet with parents and children to see if
they are ready to enter Kindergarten. How was that determined? It
had to do with the childs development, both mentally and physically.
If the parent forces the issue and demands that the child enter before
he/she is ready, bad things happen. The child ends up constantly
behind everyone else because they simply aren't ready to learn at the
proper level yet. Again, it doesn't matter who is teaching, God
wouldn't make a difference if the child just isn't developmentally
ready to learn.

This goes for the upper grades too. The huge problem is that children
develop at different speeds. No two children are exactly the same and
the teacher must teach each child at his or her different level,
regardless which grade. Some teachers do this well, others don't.

The big thing you are missing with regards your diatribe against
teachers is that every single one must complete a college education.
If you complete that college education but did not major in the
education field, then you must either then take more courses in
education, or spend many years apprenticing before you become
certified. If you want a higher salary, you must further your
education. My wife has a masters in education and still makes only
about $30,000. Think about that for a minute. Teachers are tasked
with what may be the most important job on earth, teaching children so
that they have the skills to be successfull in life. Are they paid
commesurate of their responsibility?

Corky Scott