On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 5:46:47 PM UTC-7, Roy B. wrote:
Jfitch wrote:
"produce an example of a record owned by a motorglider that was achieved by flying too low over unlandable terrain. If you cannot, then you have no argument."

The reason for no response is that this is a false challenge. The issue is not safety nor flying over unlandable terrain. The availability of a motor is a risk management tool. It helps the pilot manage much more than just safety risks. It allows for management of land out risk, risk of adverse decision in crossing large overcast areas or potentially unworkable blue areas, risk of delay by flying into loss of convection, risk of overnight retrieves and other non dangerous risks. The pure glider pilot has only his or her wits to manage those risks and no other tool if they are wrong - and so they make more conservative decisions. But they are not "safer" decisions. That is why I say that availability of a motor makes it a different sport.

I concede that in good conditions close to home there is very little difference between having a motor and not. The difference arises when you are far from home and faced with a decision that might put you on the ground. The fellow with the motor has a tool that makes that decision much less consequential. This is why I believe that the records should be different categories.

ROY

"The issue is not safety nor flying over unlandable terrain. The availability of a motor is a risk management tool." Your premise then is that a motorglider makes record attempts more convenient and therefore easier. There is no doubt about this. However there are MANY things that make record attempts more convenient and easier: the availability of a full time crew, higher performance gliders (even in the same class), the proximity of good soaring terrain to your home, independent wealth, etc. A motor is not the only - or even foremost - difference. So if you want the granularity of motors introduced to records, then several other differentiators should come at the same time, or even first. No one would suggest that it is easier to set a 15m record in a PIK20E vs. a JS-3 because it has a motor.

I've no problem with increasing the granularity of records. The motivation for records is vanity (I say that without judgement - do what turns your prop), and so increasing the opportunity to indulge is overall to the good. There is no need for them to be a zero sum game. Picking out motors as an exception among many variations seems arbitrary. My preference would be to have a "claiming record" such as is done in auto and horse racing. You claim a record, say in the $20,000 class. If your record is recognized anyone may purchase that glider from you for $20,000. This would quickly sort out motors or not, new gliders vs. old, and even expensive avionics. Most pilots would hesitate to enter their JS-3 or AS-33 in the $20K class against the PIK20E, knowing anyone could buy their glider for $20K if the record was granted.