Jim Yanik wrote in message ...
(Thelasian) wrote in
m:

"Jarg" wrote in message
om...
"Thelasian" wrote in message
m...

Not a bad idea, they are one of the worst governments left on the
planet!


Except for say Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Israel, and lots of other
US-allied repressive racist tyrannies....


First, I said one of the worst.. Second, the government of Israel,
though not without flaws, is orders of magnitude better than that of
Iran,


Yes, and I am sure the 6 million Palestinians who were driven out of
their homes and refused their rights under the Geneva Convention would
totally agree.

Uh,most of them left voluntarily,under advice from their Grand Mufti.

Brainwashed little parrot, do try to keep up: even Israeli historians
themselves don't shovel that **** any more about how the Palestinians
"voluntarily" left and so Israel is not responsible under
international law to allow them back. Have you read Benny Morris's
Righteous Victims or the Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem (if
not go to Amazon.com and do so)

In the meantime, read what Benny Morris had to say about it in his
interview with Ari Shavit, which appeared in Haaretz, where he admits
that ethnic cleansing occurred by Israel, and then being a good
Zionist, he tries to justify it as "breaking a few eggs":

Q According to your findings, how many acts of Israeli massacre were
perpetrated in 1948?

"Twenty-four. In some cases four or five people were executed, in
others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of
arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field - they
are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village - she is shot.
There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron
region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing
and killed anything that moved.

The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-110), Lod
(250), Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70). There is no
unequivocal proof of a large-scale massacre at Tantura, but war crimes
were perpetrated there. At Jaffa there was a massacre about which
nothing had been known until now. The same at Arab al Muwassi, in the
north. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram
[in the north, in October 1948]: at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun,
Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sasa. In Operation Hiram
there was a unusually high concentration of executions of people
against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion.

That can't be chance. It's a pattern. Apparently, various officers who
took part in the operation understood that the expulsion order they
received permitted them to do these deeds in order to encourage the
population to take to the roads. The fact is that no one was punished
for these acts of murder. Ben-Gurion silenced the matter. He covered
up for the officers who did the massacres."

Q What you are telling me here, as though by the way, is that in
Operation Hiram there was a comprehensive and explicit expulsion
order. Is that right?

"Yes. One of the revelations in the book is that on October 31, 1948,
the commander of the Northern Front, Moshe Carmel, issued an order in
writing to his units to expedite the removal of the Arab population.
Carmel took this action immediately after a visit by Ben-Gurion to the
Northern Command in Nazareth. There is no doubt in my mind that this
order originated with Ben-Gurion. Just as the expulsion order for the
city of Lod, which was signed by Yitzhak Rabin, was issued immediately
after Ben-Gurion visited the headquarters of Operation Dani [July
1948]."

Q Are you saying that Ben-Gurion was personally responsible for a
deliberate and systematic policy of mass expulsion?

"From April 1948, Ben-Gurion is projecting a message of transfer.
There is no explicit order of his in writing, there is no orderly
comprehensive policy, but there is an atmosphere of [population]
transfer. The transfer idea is in the air. The entire leadership
understands that this is the idea. The officer corps understands what
is required of them. Under Ben-Gurion, a consensus of transfer is
created."

Q Ben-Gurion was a "transferist"?

"Of course. Ben-Gurion was a transferist. He understood that there
could be no Jewish state with a large and hostile Arab minority in its
midst. There would be no such state. It would not be able to exist."

Q I don't hear you condemning him.

"Ben-Gurion was right. If he had not done what he did, a state would
not have come into being. That has to be clear. It is impossible to
evade it. Without the uprooting of the Palestinians, a Jewish state
would not have arisen here.

Q Benny Morris, for decades you have been researching the dark side of
Zionism. You are an expert on the atrocities of 1948. In the end, do
you in effect justify all this? Are you an advocate of the transfer of
1948?

"There is no justification for acts of rape. There is no justification
for acts of massacre. Those are war crimes. But in certain conditions,
expulsion is not a war crime. I don't think that the expulsions of
1948 were war crimes. You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs.
You have to dirty your hands."

http://www.counterpunch.org/shavit01162004.html




ISTR that there were not even 6 million original 'refugees' resulting from
the 1948 war.I believe you are counting those born in other countries
afterwards.Rather dishonest,IMO.



demonstrated by the relative freedom and prosperity its citizens
enjoy.

You mean JEWISH citizens. Even Arab citizens of Israel are widely
discriminated against in the JEWISH homeland.

Yeah,what ARAB country allows Jews to be in their legislature?
Israel has two "Palestinian" members in the Knesset.
Arabs in Israel are FAR freer and more prosperous than in any of the
neighboring Arab countries,supposedly their friends and supporters.
They expect Jews to allow them to live in Israel(which Israel does),but
will not let Jews live in Arab countries.