In message , John Carrier
writes
OK Paul, not one but two guys that've been there, done that.

R / John

Well, I come here to learn as well as lecture

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


Paul J. Adam - mainbox{at}jrwlynch[dot]demon(dot)codotuk