On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 10:53:42 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 8:51:26 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Paul B wrote on 2/22/2021 7:28 PM:
On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 11:10:09 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Paul B wrote on 2/20/2021 9:18 PM:
"About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination."

Fully agree, however the same logic was not applied to covid-19, I wonder why?

Cheers

Paul



On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 2:50:15 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/19/2021 5:30 AM:
The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
"We all know that the rooster crows before the dawn, but we don’t think the rooster makes the
sun come up, simply because they are related in time".

About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination.

Don't blame the rooster for the sunrise - get vaccinated so we can continue to argue about
purity and motorgliders :^)
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "logic was not applied to Covid-19". But, Covid caused so
many deaths, it altered the normal death rate enough to be be noticed; ie, "excess deaths",
especially in the retirement and nursing homes in the beginning. People that believe normal
deaths are being misreported as Covid cases are ignoring these excess deaths, and also the fact
that hospitals are being overwhelmed by Covid deaths, not the usual causes.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

I am not disputing that the fact Covid-19 may caused death of some and hasten an impeding death of others.

My point was simply that different criteria are being used when when ascribing causality. As an example, if someone dies at 90 and may have had covid-19, it is counted as a covid-19 death without qualification. If the same person died following an Covid-19 injection, suddenly, the age and potential comorbidities are taken into account.
I am not an antivaxxer I have had all the shots, as did my children. I even partake in the flu shot. However none of these vaccines were developed at this speed and had so little testing. You simply cannot do a multi year longitudinal study in ten months. So clearly in terms of testing, corners were cut.

You mention the excess deaths, and I am looking at these numbers also, as I feel that those numbers should be least able to be manipulated. However the picture is not that clear. For one, it will probably be a number of years before the true numbers are in and potentially longer to examine the exces deaths that happened in subsequent years because of the reaction to covid-19, not because of it.

Finally, the immediate projection of excess death from the CDC website is also problematic. The US had a near linear increase in the number of deaths per 1000 over the last 5 years. Yet the CDC chose to average the the number of deaths over the last 5 years and then add some 100000 to that number for "slow reporting". If they chose to extrapolate the likely deaths, you would have an entirely different numbers of excess death. The results and methodology is on CDC website.
I do not see the death determination being so different. Here in Washington State, death
attribution to Covid-19 requires a positive test and symptoms, and the reports include
information on comorbidities. My understanding is even more care is used to determine the cause
of deaths following vaccination, but even if you attribute all of them to the vaccine, it is
still a much smaller rate than deaths from infection.

The excess deaths are so great, we are not faced with teasing out a weak signal from a noisy
data set. There are times the excess deaths exceeded 30%! We can discuss the best way to
determine what the "normal" death rate should be, but that is a refinement that doesn't change
the big pictu people are dying at a high rate from Covid-19, and not from vaccinations.

This article shows how the excess deaths for the US are easily seen the in the data, as of
2/17/2021:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...eath-toll.html
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
What I see in that data is that Florida, that never locked down, was tied for 39th in that list. This tells me that lockdowns don't work. Also, excess deaths are due to all extraordinary events, not just COVID. There are apparently side effects (i.e. excess deaths) that are the direct result of lockdowns, which explains why Florida is so far down the list.

Tom
Florida had more of a lockdown than you may realize, although not like some states. In the beginning of the pandemic there were mandatory closings of certain types of businesses, bars, barber shops, beauty parlors, and many others including some dental services were affected. Florida did in fact become a hotbed for the virus, simply because of the people coming into the state from other areas. At one point Florida was leading the nation on new COVID cases.
Our glider club almost came to a standstill and still to this day has not recovered back to 100%. We do in fact have an older population in the club, I guess that simply explains the limited participation, the disease was having a bigger effect on our demographics than any other. Yes, there were those deaths contributed to COVID that were NOT COVID deaths, being killed in a motorcycle accident but yet testing positive for COVID should not have counted, but it did.
Trying to get a vaccination in Florida has been difficult to say the least, and yes it is getting a lot better. People were flocking to Florida from all over the nation and other countries to get a COVID vaccination, that nightmare was quickly corrected and proof of Florida residency was requested, but as always there were those that tricked the system. After several weeks of day and night of trying to sign up for a vaccination I was successful and had to travel two plus hours to get my first jab, next Saturday will be my second jab.
Things are returning toward normality but no where near pre COVID levels, restaurants, bars, healthcare facilities, and most every business has changed their person to person interactions. We still wear mask even at the glider club, although it is not mandatory, but people gather outside and stay safe distances away.
So, I ask this question once again, just what have we learned from all this?
We learned that COVID was used as a political ploy, which resulted in our country electing a guy who cannot remember where he is from day to day.
Well, at least the soaring weather is getting better here in Florida, actually it is about time. Bob, Vero Beach, Florida