wrote:

James Robinson wrote:

*For a wing stall, you are correct, however, some have pointed out
that the PIC's experience was recently on Saabs, which can see tail
stalls in icing conditions - the Q400 isn't subject to tail stalls.
*A tail stall is most often first seen when the flaps are extended,
and the effect is for the nose to drop. *The reaction to a tail stall
is to retract the flaps, and pull the nose up. *Was that what the
captain was reacting to?

If that is the case, he had no business flying the Q400 because he
lacked sufficient training in type.

Listening to the NTSB hearings today, the Colgan chief pilots went to
great pains to say that they meet all FAA minimum training requirements.
They admitted that their training for the stick pusher was only in the
classroom prior to the accident, and that they never ran simulator
exercises to demonstrate how it worked. That seems like they missed the
mark with something that important. They changed their training after the
accident to include stick pusher simulations.

The Bombardier reps said that the aircraft isn't subject to tail stalls
in icing, but that it really isn't written anywhere in their flight
manuals. In fact, there was an error in one manual, where they recommend
training in tail stalls.

However, reading the cockpit transcripts suggests that the crew was less
than confident about flying in icing conditions. The first officer in
fact said that prior to her recent assignment to the northeast, all of
her flying had been out of Phoenix, and she had never flown when there
was ice buildup. She anticipated being upgraded to Saabs within six
months.

Overall, the crew was pretty lackadasical about procedures, and the first
officer seemed right out of her depth. Certainly not a seasoned
professional. The drop in airspeed was unnoticed, and the stall seemed to
catch them completely by surprise. One of the board asked each of the
Colgan check pilots to define "situational awareness", then made a speech
about how the crew was missing that important concept.