Andy wrote:
Bruce Greef wrote:

I would apportion a certain amount of weight to Ben's observations.


But I still don't know what his observations were, only what his
conclusion is. Has he flown multple contests with top ranking pilots
flying ASW28's or is the conclusion based on just flying with one
unknown pilot at his/her local airport. I'm not trying to be
difficult. I'd really like to know how he reached this conclusion
particularly as it does not agree with my observations based on several
hundred hours in type.


Andy

Andy, you don't get in the top 100, let alone the top 10 IGC rank without doing
an enormous amount of very competitive flying. The differences between the top
aircraft is very small - far less than that between pilots. Various people
maintain that the variation within a production run of a particular glider is
larger than the nominal difference between different makes.

So again - my observation is that when it comes to those aspects of performance
that favour top contest pilots in winning contests it appears that the D2 and
LS8 have the current edge. This is partially a self perpetuating thing, as they
build confidence and experience in and demand for these models - the up and
comings look at their choices when deciding what to fly to be competitive (as
evidenced in this discussion)and go out and fly what the winners are flying. In
the broader type of flying that the average pilot will do it is not nearly as
clear which glider is better - because the question becomes "Better at what?".

So for example - my personal aircraft is the Standard Cirrus that cleaned up in
the Southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) and South African contest scene in 1970-71
in the hands of Ted Pearson. Top pilot, and the best glider at the time for
winning contests. As a current club class 36 year old, with me in the seat (less
competitive, less experienced, less talented, more fun XC oriented) there are
many of the aircraft it beat then, that are easier to live with. I even got
beaten by a Phoebus IIb in the last regionals. Bottom line - you have to be a
bit better to extract the most from the racing oriented design, but it does have
a little more to give. If you are able to extract that last 1% and the
compromises required to get it don't phase you then you know which is the "best"
design.

Flying against some other (newer) Std Cirri has shown wide variances, some are
worse, some are so much better as to make one wonder if this is the same design.

Off the point I suppose. Ben and others' view is that the Discus 2a is the best
design available for Standard Class racing. Given that this has to be at least
partially a subjective view, one can't really differ. If you vary the metric to
include any subset of
the best finish, or
longevity, or
ergonomics or
value for money or
safety or
comfort or
manufacturer support

or any other thing that is relevant to your decision then you can make a
meaningful comparison.