On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:46:12 -0700, Ed Rasimus
wrote:

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 03:39:28 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote:

snip

Impossible to fly a combat weapons delivery sortie in either airplane
without a second crewmember. (Note that the F-4 can be flown quite
nicely solo as the Thunderbirds did, but not as a weapon system.)

Ed, you couldn't make a manual delivery in the F-4E using only the front seat?
(Not that I'm buying any of JGG's fantasies, just wondering). I can see no
reason why you couldn't in an F-4C, and probably the same holds true for a D or E
as well. All the switches you'd need are in the F/C/P. If you wanted to make a
radar-assisted delivery that's another matter, and I'm sure that both accuracy
and safety were improved during manual deliveries at night by having the GIB call
out the 3 As during a pass, but he doesn't seem essential.

Guy


Of course you could get bombs off with a manually depressed reticle.
But, your INS is still telling you distance back to home plate, you've
had no nav updates for the length of the sortie. You've got no radar,
since you can't get out of standby to even access a boresight A/A lock
on. You've got no ECM operative, although you can turn your RWR on.

It simply makes no sense. If you've got a mission critical enough that
you've taken a system off the operational line and painted it black,
why wouldn't you put a bod in the R/C/P. It isn't to minimize number
of folks in the loop, because you've got a passle full of ground
support troops to arm, fuel and launch the bird.

Basically any control box within the pressure bulkheads can be easily
moved from back to front. Probably could even move the rear radar
unit up front or at least duplicate whatever controls you need..

What I can't figure out is why the CIA needed to bomb Laos with black
airplanes?

Maybe they were running their own Igloo White on the sly and dropping
sensors instead? Maybe it wasn't just Laos they were dropping sensors
on? Maybe use a black aircraft at night to drop a sensor near a
runway and listen to the planes come and go? Maybe the backseats were
full of equipment (F-105 Combat Martin) that picked up their sensor
info and relayed it to their own out of the loop listening posts?
Maybe the back seat area had a trap door and an agent dropped out over
NVN?G