On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:05:23 GMT "Dude" wrote:
The main advantage today is bonus depreciatation. If you have a family
income in the 150 plus area, and want to own a new plane, then
leasebacks
become a reasonable risk to help you buy the plane. Basically, you can
end
up getting a very large tax rebate to then pay off a good chunk of your
loan. I borrowed 150k on my plane, got a 22k rebate (this was under 4th
qtr
rule, and withonly 30% bonus. Today you get 50% bonus until Jan1.) By
putting the 22k against my 20 year loan, I effectively have a 15 year
loan
with the same payments of a 20. This is why a 20 year loan is really
okay.
The key is YOU HAVE TO TAKE ALL YOUR REBATES AND SEND THEM TO THE LIEN
HOLDER! (The guy that taught me this was religious about it, and now so
am
I.)
Not sure I followed all this so I guess I will have to look into it some
more.
Talk to a new plane salesman, or tax accountant for more info. Its a great
time to be buying.
I will probably talk to an accountant, yes. The tax code is getting crazier
by the minute. I just read a little bit about AMT. Scary stuff.
It's now referred to as the "stealth tax".
There's also a lot of pressure coming from new plane purchases too.
I think that has to have an impact on the used-market.
Diamond, Cirrus, Symphony, Lancair, et. al.
The new improvements of glass cockpits and other items plus bonus
depreciation is pushing really hard on the value of planes under 5 years
old. Planes built before the eighties are holding up well considering
that
most of them are passing the 25 year mark. I believe you will see them
start to drop significantly, as the hulls age. If you want to fly cheap,
go
get an AP certificate. If you are willing to be a mechanic, you will
soon
be able to buy planes for the value of the engines and avionics.
I've thought of getting an AP but it's not likely to happen in this
lifetime.
But possibly. What's it take to get one these days?
Its more time than money, might be a good question for a new thread. I am
That's what I thought. Maybe down the road it'll make more sense. It would
only be to for personal reasons. I have no intention of doing that for a living.
making good money, so my time is too valuable right now. Things could
always change though. Many owners find a friendly AP to sign to supervise
and sign off on their work as well, but thats usually on simple stuff, not
renovation.
For a new plane everything is different. But in a busy club it can
work.
It is working in a lot of clubs. It has to be managed properly to
work
well.
The reduced outages, greater marketability, and warranty on a new plane
can
help it make money. Insurance can be an issue though. The key to a new
plane on leaseback is a plan for what to do after it is 5 years old.
Can
you step up, and still have a viable leaseback? Is plane number two not
going to be a leaseback at all? Do you want to leave it in leaseback
indefinitely? Are you planning to take it off the line and replace it?
All good stuff. A couple of thoughts. Some new planes require more time
to be proficient than others. The Cirrus comes to mind.
High-performance,
glass cockpit (lots of features in those new devices), the chute. So
there
is some impediment in the form of time/money for getting checked out and
that could limit the uptake.
I would check insurance rates with the fleet insurer before buying, but i
doubt it will make sense to go with Cirrus due to rates. Diamonds are easy
check outs, but rates vary from as good as Cessna or Piper to a bit higher
depending on insurance companies' like or dislike of composites.
Cirrus has had some high-profile accidents.
As for what to do after 5 years I would think
that the situation would dictate what to do. If it's in the air and
paying
for itself let it ride.
That's a choice, but you may get tired of sharing too. 
I think since I'm a cheap skate that I will not tire of sharing
expenses.
R. Hubbell
I know people who have made a little money, but I would not count on
that.
If you have expectations of reduced costs only, you are more likely to
end
up happy.
Staying out of the red is good enough. And flying it too!
Thanks.
R. Hubbell