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Old August 16th 03, 01:10 PM
John Carrier
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Hmmm... Are you talking 450 KIAS or 450 KTAS?

I doubt the T-2 will do 450 KIAS level in any configuration. Getting

another 50
KIAS would likely require more thrust than any pair of J-85s could

produce.

I was thinking unlimited racing environment where KIAS and KTAS are
essentially the same. Pechs may be right, the tips might have to go. The
current rode-hard-put-away-wet aircraft will hit 400 at sea level (well
okay, break altitude). I can assure you the aircraft that's flying now and
that was flying when I instructed (late 80's) is NOT the jet that rolled off
the production line performance wise.

The A-4 is, as you say, a whole new ballgame. IIRC, the A-4C, which was a

very
clean machine, supposedly could do 540 KIAS. The SuperFox would likely go
faster if the dorsal hump was absent. I'm not sure how much drag the hump

adds.
The A-4M, with the larger hump and bubble canopy, would likely be slower

even
with the -408 engine.


The A-4 set a low altitude speed record (100km closed course IIRC) of 695
mph at Edwards back in 1954. I think that works out to right around 600
indicated. Yes the Super F's hump was a problem. Adversary and Blues
removed it for the performance increase. I've had A-4's in the high 500's
above 5K' (while watching the fighters escape with almost 200 knots
opening), mach tuck and all the trimmings.

Max IAS is usually obtained really low and frequently runs into real or
artificial limits (F-4 with centerline had a 600 limit, used to be a limit
on F-14 tanks). I never saw an attack aircraft that wasn't pretty well
dragged up even though the guys of my era used to LIVE in the weeds. Clean
F-104 could really scoot (812 or so indicated in the high desert for the
record runs ... at 60-70 feet!) and I've heard the 105 and 111 could really
haul the mail as well. Despite lots of stories, most folks don't truly find
out what Vmax(indicated) for their airframe really is (and that might be
just as well, check out the first Sageburner attempt films).

R / John