On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:40:39 PM UTC-7, Jerzy wrote:

If we have limit of 90 or 100kt and start line for FAI class then no one will dive like in old times at VNE, it is easier to control speed then time.

Two minutes limit is removing two safety futures- vertical separation and horizontal separation as all are trying to be for 2 minutes below specific altitude, in addition it is forcing all pilots in to the same area of limited radius with no vertical separation and very close proximity I think it works opposite to safety.

Yes, we need start altitude limit in cases of very high cloud base, blue thermals or (wave 2012 WGC Uvalde) to give all pilots the same chance, but US start cylinder is very unsafe place to be.

Jerzy Szemplinski

So your specific suggestion is:

1) Reset the MSH suggestion in the rules to, say, 8000' MSL. It would effectively be top of lift or cloud base on many contests in the eastern US. You'd either live with the fact that you'll sometimes get pre-start gaggles congregating at the front edge of the cylinder just barely clear of clouds - or provide for the same penalty for violating the cloud clearance FAR as for violating airspace FARs.

2) Re-set the speed limit in the start cylinder to 90 knots IAS calculated from the log file. You'd have to base it on a standard atmosphere calculation and an estimate for wind based on aggregate circling speed differentials as best as can be estimated from all the log files at the closest time available if IAS isn't available directly in each log - or require logs that include IAS if we don't require it today.

3) Based on 2), you no longer need a 2 minute rule because an 90-knot dive into the top of cylinder at 8,000 feet isn't a concern, since you'll probably be heading out on course at no less than 70.

Is that a correct summary?