On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 06:54:11 -0700, krasw wrote:

On Friday, 24 April 2020 20:11:54 UTC+3, Martin Gregorie wrote:

So, on the whole I prefer trainers to be more unforgiving than the
ASK-21 or the G-103. Personally, I like the Puchacz a lot - its much
more pleasant to fly solo than either an ASK-21 or a G103.

But, all I really was saying that thinking an ASK-21 won't spin is an
attitude that may catch you out one day. Its manual also says it won't
spin inverted but there are or were test pilots at Edwards who showed
that to be wrong.


I have been flying ASK 21s for 25 years first as a student and then as a
flight instructor. I have never witnessed or heard anyone spinning 21,
unless equipped with spin kit which we have. I would rate it as spin
proof as anything can be. Statistics agree with this.

Well, now you know that its possible to spin it without the kit: my club
has never had a tail-weight kit and doesn't now despite owning two
ASK-21s.

We still have our Puchacz and for spin training or a spin refresher. That
is what I'd expect to do annual spin checks in. I'm looking forward to
doing just that as soon as we can fly again.

I didn't say spinning an ASK-21 without weights is easy, just that it can
be done if both pilots are medium to light weight.

I had a trial flight at Blue Ridge Soaring (16 Oct 1999). The CFIG was
large, I'm not. Anyhow, he attempted to demonstrate a spin in their
ASK-21, the first glass glider I'd even seen, and could not get it to
spin, *but* (1) he was heavy and (2) he tried to provoke a spin while
flying quite a bit faster than stall speed. All his attempts seemed to
start to spin, but became the beginning of a spiral dive after around
half a turn and were promptly rolled level and recovered.

But read the Edwards report to get a professional opinion about it. Their
view is that an ASK-21 will spin (upright AND inverted) and stall but
that the POH was inadequate and incorrect. Presumably the POH has been
amended for the ASK-21B.

You referring to Puchacz as forgiving trainer.

Wrong. I said its nicer to fly solo than an ASK-21, not that it is
forgiving. You certainly won't find me flying one slowly below 1000 ft.
Please don't misquote me again.

Are you aware that over 10% of Puchacz
fleet has been spinned accidentally to ground? This is absolutely
appalling statistic.

I don't know whether the 10% figure is right, but I am well aware that
quite a lot of them have been crashed.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org