On Friday, 30 November 2012 10:11:15 UTC-7, Sean F (F2) wrote:
Ron,



Thanks for clarifying. I was not aware of previous US Scorer experience with SeeYou Competition. This is very useful.



May I ask you to expound on this "MUCH" experience with See You Competition and US Scorers? Please be specific and list what competitions you (or others) have scored using SeeYou Comp. I would be shocked if you cite competitions in the USA. Or did you (or others) go overseas (any other gliding country in the World that does not use US rules)?



Could you further expound on what your previous experience was like in terms of initial learning curve, ease of use, etc.



How would you rate your experience using SeeYou Competition at the 2012 Uvalde World Championships (with this MUCH previous experience)?



Was SeeYou Comp reasonably easy to use? Was it unusable?



How does it compare to Winscore? What were your impressions on the FAI rules vs. US Rules? I understand you are biased to the US rules (per your comment). Nonetheless, your insigt is most welcomed.



Sincerely,



Sean

F2/7T



On Friday, November 30, 2012 9:55:54 AM UTC-5, Ron Gleason wrote:

On Thursday, 29 November 2012 20:46:20 UTC-7, Sean F (F2) wrote:



On Thursday, November 29, 2012 7:24:07 PM UTC-5, Ron Gleason wrote:







T































On Thursday, 29 November 2012 16:20:16 UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:























































Other than the 1-26 class I not sure how the SSA RC has allowed anything other than Winscore in the past. *I see no problems using SeeYou Competition, like any scoring program you need experience with it. *There are a number of 'administrative' steps that become manual with SeeYou.























There is no rules-required official scoring program. Use a slide rule















if you want to. 1-26ers use their own program.























John Cochrane















Thanks John, need to find and dust off that slide ruler!















The SeeYou scoring module very easy to use with FAI rules. SeeYou was highly successfully when used by the American scorers during the 2012 World Championship in Uvalde this [ast summer. They all had minimal previous experience with it. I am sure other scorer's could pick it up just as easily.















SeeYou is good software, well supported by Naviteer and used by many major contests worldwide. Utilizing this software for the 2013 US FAI Club Class Nationals would be plug and play simple. My wife is excellent with both SeeYou and WinScore. She would be happy to help score (or fully score) for the contests I attend in 2013. I am also willing to train via GoToMeeting anytime...















Sean







F2







F2 wrote - They all had minimal previous experience with it







this is an untrue statement, some of us, including me, have much experience with SeeYou Competition. Make sure you have your facts correct.







Will be watching to see how this unfolds, good luck. I support the SSA competition committee approach, I fly a ASW20 BL 8-)


Sean, I am not fighting you on this issue, rather I am very interested how a contest would be validated by the SSA competition committee if WINSCORE was not used. If SeeYou competition is used 'out of the box' and *no* specialized script was used than it should be simple. If a specialized script is written and used then that would be, in my opinion, a different ball for the SSA competition committee and the competitors. I would also like to see SeeYou used for scoring of SSA sanctioned competitions but I am not sure that SeeYou can be customized enough via it's scripting to support all of the current SSA competition rules.

Regarding specifics of others all I can accurately report on is that the 2011 contests in Uvalde, pre-Worlds, was scored using SeeYou by Leo Buckley.

My experience with SeeYou Comp comes from HG competitions, same circus different clowns. No accurate way to describe MUCH, like asking how long will it take to Solo a glider? It depends.

Which is easier or better to score with? Again, it is like asking which is a better glider; ASW-27B or Ventus-2BX? It depends on many factors.

Both programs work well and if the person(s) driving them is PC literate and process oriented it helps greatly.

Areas of comparison(s):

Administration and setup - The advantage goes to WINSCORE as it is integrated with the SSA contest registration facilities and the only manual efforts you need are to reflect changes. Furthermore WINSCORE understands multiple classes within a single competition, 15M, 18M etc, and easily handles it.

Handling of flight logs - equivalent. SeeYou allows for automatic scanning of directories thus allowing for auto detection of new logs. If you want to allow flight submission via email then SeeYou can provide full automation of flight log detection, scoring and electronic production and publishing of scores. One major difference between the two programs is how a log is tied to a competitor; SeeYou uses the 3 character flight logger identifier (not serial number) and WINSCORE uses the contest id. How many pilots know their flight logger id? Of their backup logger(s)? There are ways to manually associate logs and pilot the first time within SeeYou. Not hard to do but is a procedural difference for the pilots.

Handling exceptions - Slight advantage to WINSCORE. Both problems flag or warn of errors found like start height, finish height, airspace and the scorer has to go validate the error and assign the penalty. While both programs identify WINSCORE recommends the value of the penalty. With SeeYou you either look up the penalty in the FAI rulebook and use the value or compute the value based on the formula provided.

Airspace and WP files - Both use files from the worldwide turnpoint website..

Task definition - Slight advantage to SeeYou. This is a very subjective one but many of us use SeeYou for defining tasks in our individual flying so we are familiar with.

Task sheets - very similar. SeeYou uses a format that many pilots are familiar with. If custom task sheets are used, as most SSA contest that I have been use, then WINSCORE is easier to cut and paste into a WORD document to start the creation process.

Scoresheets - very similar. The differences are formatting and procedural. WINSCORE is integrated with the SSA web site, SeeYou is integrated with www.soaringspot.com. The SeeYou results can easily be added to the SSA website but it would be a manual process instead of an automated one.

Archived flight logs - WINSCORE allows putting all IGC files in one zipped file and uploading to the SSA web site for easy down loads by competitors or racing fans. SeeYou uploads the IGC to www.soaringspot.com along with the scores *but* each IGC file must be downloaded individually.

Again either program will do the job, experience with them allows for smoother organization and scoring.

Regarding FAI versus US Rules. From a scoring perspective there is no difference, a scorer just needs to understand them and be prepared to apply them. There is no emotion involved when scoring. All of the differences, factual and emotional, that have been discussed between the rules have to do with pilot or safety issues. I have minimal, less than 10, SSA sanctioned competition experiences from a pilot perspective, more then 50 from my HG days including 3 world championships.

I am biased to the proposed US club class rules so that my ASW-20BL would be included 8-)