On Jun 27, 8:31*am, jb92563 wrote:
On Jun 25, 4:17*pm, Ramy wrote:

Two recent incidents which all sounds too familiar and we can all
learn from them:

1 - Another spoilers out/rudder waggle resulting in premature release
- How many more of those we need till we conclude that the rudder
waggle does NOT work? What happened to radio communication?http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?e...03X00777&key=1

2 - Another restricted control due to unsecured item. I bet this
caused more accidents then we know of.http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?e...06X00809&key=1

Ramy

With all the options available I just think that releasing on a wrong
signal is due to stress, loss of concentration and wanting to react by
rote instead of reasoning out the situation and problem that may
exist.

As we know taking a little time to figure out what is going on is OK
since the TOW plane can likely release you at will if things get
critical for him.

Even when I see a wing rock I quickly evaluate if there is a problem
before deciding to release, ie airspeed, climb rate, hazards, spoilers
etc so I can decide for myself if it was turbulence or truly a wing
rock.

The tow pilots have all confirmed that if they had a serious issue
they would release me even without a wing rock if they needed to.

I think using all options on hand to communicate is a great idea and
the radio is a pretty good way to transmit a message, then of course
you should use what ever you have at your disposal.

Again I simply state that if a rudder wag meaning can be forgotten
then so can any other kind of signal so what could you use in its
place that people could more easily remember?

I suppose a scrolling LED sign like a billboard perhaps but that just
does not seem practical ;-)

Ray

I think it is pretty obvious why pilots keep making this mistake: The
tow plane is climbing poorly or not climbing at all. If the pilot
suspects something is wrong with his glider, he will surely look at
the spoiler and correct the mistake, then no rudder waggle is needed.
However rudder waggles happen when the glider pilot did not notice his
mistake by himself, which means he is sure that something is wrong
with the tow plane since the tow plane is not climbing as expected,
and as such is anticipating to be waved off, and releases instictively
the moment he sees the rudder waggle... This type of premature release
is much worse then a rope break, since the spoiler are extended and
200 feet wouldn't be anought to trun around or even make it to any
landable place!
I think the only solution is mandatory operating radios in both glider
and tow plane and always make a radio check before take off. Even if
the frequency is busy at the moment, I think there is a good chance
the transmission will be heard due to the close proximity of the tow
plane and glider.

Ramy