I've read most of this discussion about spinning and spin training and I feel somewhat saddened by the polarization of views that I have seen thoughout.

My glider training started in the late 1960's and that is when I learned all about spin recovery (as taught to me at the time mostly by an ex army air corp pilot), this was all carried out after release from aero tow and never initiating an entry below 1500 feet, in fact that was the intended lowest recovery altitude for any maneuvre of this kind. After a long break from 1976 to 1989 (with a brief non-solo spell for a few weeks at club nearby in 1984) I joined a club and went solo again. A year later I bought a Dart 17 and started to enjoy flying it

During one of my early flights in the Dart (by this time I only had a few tens of hours recent flying) I was in a thermal above a ridge and responded incorrectly to a sudden wing drop with an associated nose down change in pitch (it was a rough thermal) - the Dart spun (they do that if you ask in the right tone of voice). Moving the stick forward had no effect, in fact putting the stick anywhere had no effect, the only thing that did work (once I had correctly recognized the situation) was the correct spin recovery procedure - I don't recall how many turns this was, maybe one or two, but by this time I was fairly close to the ground. It wasn't the proximity of the ground which had my attention, I was more concerned with correcting the situation in hand and thus avoiding the bone crunching intervention of the ground. During the recovery from the ensuing dive I did become more aware of the proximity of the ground (it seemed to be only a few hundred feet, if that) and worried a!
bout getting back to the upwind side of the ridge - my reaction here was to only partially recover from the dive and keep a good amount of speed on to push forward to the front of the ridge (another thing that was drummed into me in the 60's was to keep the speed up when close to the ground). I certainly remember the ground rush effect during the dive, but not during the initial part of the recovery, I think I was too busy trying to do the correct the situation at that time.

From what I can recall, the entry to this spin was initiated at less 1000 feet above ground level (It's hard to be exact, the top of the ridge - above Whipsnade lion enclosure was my belief at the time - was higher than the launch point) - the prospect of finishing up in that enclosure certainly focused my mind at the time.

What had been drummed into me back in the 60's were the following:
1. recognition of the flight mode I was in (e.g. in a spin), I believe this is one of the factors which contributed to my safe return that day
2. the correct procedure to use and how to apply it, I believe this was the other factor
3. there was talk of incipient spins and the recovery from same (a "judicious" bootful of rudder and get the nose down - there's been some argument about that already - I'm saying this is the correct action, just reporting what I remember I was instructed to do at the time)
4. one particular thing that I noticed on my return to gliding in the late 80's was the political incorrectness of term "incipient spin", and the insistence on use of the term "stall with a wing drop" - I recall a test pilot I know telling me about his time at Edwards AFB and the political incorrectness of PIO, instead it is now termed "Pilot Aircraft Coupling" - I have to ask: does it really matter whether we call it fishpaste or salmon pate? Isn't it more important that we understand the mechanics of what is happening and what to do when it does?

Lastly: I have noticed that in human affairs, there is the adoption of "fashions" - be it clothes, mannerisms, procedures, whatever. If is often not clear to me which point of view is the correct one (maybe I'm just thick - not very, mind you, just a bit). The only thing I can be certain of is that actual experience of a situation and the effect of the actions one took to correct. It worked for me - IN A DART - that doesn't necessarily mean I would do the correct thing in a different situation, but the training I receive should ensure that I can recognize it and apply what is known to be a correct recovery procedure.

I flew the Puchacz on an instructors course in 1995 and found it to be a nice aircraft to fly - we were well instructed in it's idiosyncracies and it was noted that it was a good spin trainer. We were shown that it is possible to spin the puch such that a "proper" spin recovery procedure must be used to effect a return to normal flight. We were also shown how much K13 vary in their characteristics with regard to spinning, Lasham had 9 at the time, they were all different - some spun like a top, others were very reluctant. Personally, I wouldn't attempt to teach spins on any aircraft in which I wasn't current and very familiar with. I don't currently have an instructors rating and haven't for some years - it's a dangerous trade.

Rgds,

Derrick.