On Sep 23, 1:29*pm, toad wrote:
On Sep 23, 3:47*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:





On Sep 23, 11:35*am, toad wrote:

But long time pilots that fly low level equipment must be able to win,
if they are flying the best at that contest.

Todd -

This is where I probably break from the pack and earn a few enemies:
I completely disagree with you on this. *I used to make the same
argument you are using, back in my auto-racing days. I fought mightily
for rules to allow anyone with any budget to have an equal shot at
winning. *And as someone who's worked in the games and entertainment
industry I also used to strive for that kind of equality in things
like collectible card games where more money can make a big
difference...

But the bottom-line is that I've never ever seen a successful program
that makes someone's budget irrelevant. *And many of the attempts to
do so have been big failures that have had negative impacts on the
whole sport or competition that they were designed to help.

I'm all for simple and reasonable efforts to make the competition fair
- but there's no way to make it 100% level across all equipment and to
force the guy with the fat wallet to compete with no more advantage
than the guy on a shoestring - and I say this as someone who's usually
competing on a shoestring! :-P

Budget for prep is very different than budget for glider purchase. *I
want a class that a $20,000-$50,000 glider can have a reasonable
chance of winning in.

Prep work is mostly sweat equity and cleverness, not money.

The "Nimbus 3 vs. ASK-14" thing is ridiculous. *People love to make
comparisons like this, but again this is a SPORT and this is

That was a real situation in a real contest, if the intention is not
to fairly score the contest, why did we have scoring ?

COMPETITON; at a National level in some of these cases/arguments. *If
you put a high value on winning then you need to make the sacrifices
and choices in your life to compete at the highest possible level. *If

I want a fairly run, level contest for me and my regional flying
friends, I don't really care about the national top level stuff.





you cannot compete at the absolute top level because of your budget,
then you do the best you can and you take the satisfaction that you
can get out of doing more with less... *But screwing up the majority
of the racers just so a couple of people at the lowest level can
theoretically do better than people at the highest levels is wrong.
Don't target the slim majority at the top OR the bottom - target the
middle and upper-middle ranges, the majority of your competitors. *If
they're reasonably competitive against each other, then your system is
doing what it is supposed to do.

Look at an individual sport like Bowling or Golf: *Do you really think
that the handicap there makes everyone play at the same level? *What
about the guy who can afford better clubs or a custom-drilled bowling-
ball? *Does the handicap take that into account? *No! *There are
plenty of other examples of this, in sports that are highly successful
and have plenty of participation... *These "unfair" sports haven't
stopped rookies from trying the sport or attempting to move up in
skill and equipment over time - why should it stop glider pilots?

There are lots of sports that effectively cap the amount of money that
will improve your score through equipment limits. *One design sailboat
classes exist that allow you to be competitive for much less than a
$10,000 purchase price.







The problem is that the handicapping should really depend on the
weather conditions, a single number handicap only works well within a
small range of handicaps. *Especially for a weather driven sport.

Except that the exact combination of weather conditions is always
changing and never exactly identical. *That's one of the reasons this
sport is so challenging, afterall! *So how do you come up with
standards or metrics on something like that? *And don't think that it
only matters for gliders with hugely different performance numbers...
My DG-300 came with big ballast bags; does that mean I should have a
worse handicap than a DG-300 with small ballast bags on strong days?
Or what if specific conditions favor a DuoDiscus over a DG-1000? *Or a
DG-1000T over a Duo X but NOT a DG-1000 over a standard Duo? *How
finely do you want to slice this, and how insanely complicated do you
end up making the rules as a result?

I want the rules simple, a small handicap spread allows use of a
simple system such as we have today. *Allowing any glider into the
scoring, *(Nimbus vs 1-26) *breaks the simple handicap system.



I return to my original argument: *You handicap to give folks in
various equipment with equivalent skills a SHOT at doing well. *And
you hold the competition over multiple days to try to average out the
weather and the luck factor - that's the way its ALWAYS been (even
before handicapped classes).

Take care,

--Noel

Todd Smith- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't think I could support a system that, as a practical matter,
exclued pilots from being able to compete in a regionals becasue of
the kind of glider thay own. Nimbuses fly in Sports typically because
there is no Open Class offered and they guys who own SparrowHawks and
Russias, well, Sports is all they've got.

In my experience the ships out at the edges of the handicap list only
rarely end up at the top of the scorsheet over the course of a
contest. The guys with high handicaps are likely to be at a big
disadvantage on one or more days and the guys with really low
handicaps generally have trouble beating the field by that much,
between gaggle flying and tasking for the average glider that makes it
hard to break away by a lot on a consistent basis. The only case I can
recall, the Twin Astir this year, Nick did an extraordinary job of
flying. Was it enough to beat KS on the basis of pure piloting? - I
dunno, but I didn't hear a lot of complaining and there were plenty of
races between much more closely matched gliders down the scoresheet
where I'm sure the handicap made the difference in placing.

Honestly, if I got beat in a contest by an ASK-14 it tip my hat to the
pilot - handicap or not. That's gutsy.

9B