AviationBanter - View Single Post

**JJS[_2_]**

In article ,
wrote:

On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:58:48 -0700, (JJS)
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:52:00 -0700, (JJS)
wrote:

SNIP

Well there's the problem. The large immigration of Chinese to Tibet
could be considered a threat by the local Tibetan population. They
might argue that the first pick goes to the Chinese or those Tibetans
loyal to the Chinese rather than the general population. At least that's
how it usually works in the rest of the world.

The real problem here is finding enough qualified Tibetans. Those
qualifed will have no problem finding employment. You still need at
least a high school equivalency to work in a white collar job. To a
Han Tibet is a hardship post. But if that's where the jobs are
they'll come, earn what they came to earn and then go east after a few
years. The jobs will always be available for qualified Tibetans.

As for manual jobs the Han immigrants are paid as poorly as Tibetans.
And there is a problem of language to manage a Tibetan work crew.

Hmmm, the Tibetan language being a problem in Tibet is a problem?
I fear that their culture is surely doomed.

Han and non Tibetans rarely if ever learn Tibetan. There is no money
in it. Outside the Buddhist tracts there is no great Tibetan
literature. Buddhism you can learn from other mainstream languages.
Tibetan culture has meaning only to Tibetans and to "good only for two
days" tourists. It is brutal and it is Darwinian. Tibetan culture as
a way of life is doomed. It will survive only as tourist curiosities
and in the occassional lost valley too remote for modern
infrastructure to reach.

In
any case these are dead end jobs. The only solution is for Tibetans
to acquire employable skills.

True.

But the Tibetans must also have
the attitude, aptitude and the ability to take advantage of these
opportunities.

I know this is where the "whether they want it or not" comes in.

To quit with barely a grade 6 education with no
(Chinese majority or foreign) language skills dooms one to making a
living off equally disadvantaged fellow Tibetans. (Being a monk
inures one to life's hardships but is quite useless for making a
living.)

I agree but when does it become someone elseÃ‚Â¹s choice (non-Tibetan)
that they change the way they live their life? I'm not saying
that the local population had a better life style before the
Chinese decided to improve things. I'm just wondering who gets to
decide what happens in Tibet.

Beijing of course. How many times do you have to be reminded of that.
If you have a viable alternative do let the world know. You will have
Tibetans and Beijing whispering your name in gratitude.

Depends on how you define ³viable alternative². With a government in
China as paranoid as it is about it¹s control of power I don¹t see a
viable alternative so the Tibetans are fated to be screwed by the
Chinese.

Do read the May National Geographic special issue on China. See the
vast deserts. See the poverty and backwardness in marginal farmlands.
Due to global climate change Tibet is drying up and farming and
herding can no longer sustain a livelihood. The world is changing and
their old style of life has disappeared forever whether they like it
or not. The question then is can they adapt to the new life that has
been forced upon them by nature.

I've never argued that their life isn't changing I've been asking
who gets to and who should decide how it changes. I think we agree
that it isn't the people of Tibet.

Once more with feeling. Beijing of course. How many times do you
have to be reminded of that. If you have a viable alternative do let
the world know. You will have Tibetans and Beijing whispering your
name in gratitude.

Once more but without as much feeling. Depends on how you define ³viable
alternative². With a government in China as paranoid as it is about
it¹s control of power I don¹t see a viable alternative so the
Tibetans are going to be screwed by the Chinese.

Now had Beijing left Tibet alone to muddle along with Tibetans left to
their own devices there would be a real outcry that Beijing was
practising genocide. Life would be very harsh for Tibetans and life
expectancy in the low 40s with live births in appalling low numbers.

So we are back to the "white man's burden" excuse again. Look
we both know that it doesn't matter what the life style of Tibet
is. This is all about power so why keep bringing up how good
this is for Tibet when is has nothing to do with helping Tibet.
Well I guess you could say that the Chinese are 'helping' themselves
to the resources of Tibet.

So Beijing muddles along too but on a higher economic plane until some
solution presents itself. At least the Tibetans aren't dying like
flies.

We don¹t know what would happen in Tibet if the Chinese left them alone.
The world is changing and they possibly on their own would change with
it. Slower but change none the less.

Turn to page 74-75 a double spread showing Tibetan youths and
government housing in the background built to house Tibetans displaced
by climate change. The caption suggests that the Tibetan youths are
visitors. Those Tibetans resettled in these new towns receive
government subsidies enough to get by on. But they are bored out of
their frigging minds because of lack of suitable employment. They are
pastoral people not urbanites. In this sheltered environment Tibetan
culture cannot thrive because it is out of context with their
traditional way of life. By the same context no amount of government
funding or support will keep alive Tibetan culture as a way of life.
Change is not an option. It is a relentless certainty.

Do take a look at the Tibetan youths again and compare them with the
Han in other pages. They look differerent enough that without my
dwelling on it you can see they will have a problem getting hired.

Is racism a problem in China?

NO. In the whole of China's long history no minority people had ever
posed a threat to a Han's livelihood. The minorities were always
poorer off for any Han to develop feelings of jealousy or insecurity.
Their numbers (the minority groups) were never large enough to impact
on any aspect of Chinese society. Fear and loathing for a non Han
therefore never arose. But tribal prejudice is alive and well between
Han provincials and dialect groups. But that's another story all
together.

Thanks for the info.

I
have deleted the rest of my rant as I have no alternative or
optimistic solutions for Tibetan problems in a fast changing world.
No amount of good intentions or pablum slogans on your part nor on the
Chinese side will solve anything.

Don't get me wrong they are living in a time of change that will
most likely turn their world upside down. I'm merely pointing
out that there isn't only one way for this change to take place. What
I see happening is a government that isn't concerned on what is best
for Tibet. But I don't see a practical solution to the situation. So
let's agree that the Tibetans are going to get screwed.

Joe

The New Town Settlements encapsulate all that is unhappy and
intractable with the Tibetan problem. Its pretty obvious that
building larger houses and giving them a bigger stipend will solve
nothing. It maye make the situation worse by removing all incentive
for them to make it in the modern world. Tibetans are not going to
get screwed. They are already screwed. They are screwed by pinning
their hopes on independence

The nerve of them having the gall to want independence.

(a non starter), on religion

Well I have to admit that I'm not into the religion thing.

and on the
return of the lama system. Their salvation is to develop an
economically viable way of life in modern society not regress to blind
hopes.

Oh I agree.

A full belly is the means to fulfill many hopes.

But not all hopes.

This is also the reason why the Dalai Lama does not want to return to
Tibet.

Okay you're starting to lose me here.

There's nothing he can do for he has neither the funds nor the
organization nor the solutions economic and cultural to meet their
needs.

Why not let him try?

While he stays outside and does his thing he gets treated like
a head of state and receives very generous funding from well meaning
donors and from governments wishing to destabilize China.

Only countries that wish to destabilize China? Sounds a bit
paranoid to me.

Thus every
time China agrees to talks, whenever these talks seem like moving
forward, the DL will say something undiplomatic to sabotage them.

I'm not sure what they consider "undiplomatic". He has stated that
He doesn't want independence from China but more local autonomy.
I know, I know that¹s wishful thinking on his part. Besides he has
a secret agenda bankrolled by countries that want to destabilize
China.

That's very acceptable to China for the DL remains outside China and
it doesn't cost China a single penny to keep the DL out. You guys are
being manipulated by the DL and you didn't recognize it.

Really. I'm being manipulated? Then perhaps you can tell me what
my position is concerning the Dalai Lama?

Joe