"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...
Jim Baker wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

Jim Baker wrote:

wrote in message
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"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:



I think his point is that a cruise clearance is simply not ambiguous.
It is spelled out very clearly and the rules are clear, not
ambiguous.
What do you think is ambiguous about it?

Matt

The thread is getting mature, but I believe "ambiguous" was in the

context

of a


PD clearance, not a cruise clearance.


Correct. That is what I was referring to.



Ok ... so where's the ambiguity in a PD clearance?


Matt


OK, I looked up the word "ambiguity" in the dictionary (online) and the
second def is "uncertainty". Without rereading all the threads, I
believe
the point Sammy and I were trying to make is that, through our years of
flying, we've found that sometimes controllers make mistakes, as do
pilots.
With ref to PD, we have found that occassionally if a PD isn't started
pretty soon after it's been issued, a controller can forget he issued
it,
change shifts or stations and not give a good briefing, or whatever. I
have
been asked, a few times, several minutes after being issued a PD and
prior
to starting down, if I have started it yet. This while above FL180.
This
query from ATC caused uncertainty, some might say ambiguity, in my mind
because I believed he was tracking my altitude. Perhaps he was just
being
polite and was telling me to get my ass down, dunno. At any rate, I'm
of
the opinion, through 30+ years of flying in the U.S. and Central/South
America, that communication with ATC is good. Therefore, if I don't
start a
PD immediately after it's been issued, I remove the uncertainty from my
mind, and possibly from the controllers mind ("have you started yet?"),
by
making a short radio transmission on an uncongested frequency. I don't
think it costs the controllers anything to hear this, and it provides me
comfort knowing I've alerted the controller to what I'm doing.

OK, ambiguity in your mind isn't the same, however, as ambiguity in the
procedure. Whenever anyone makes a mistake, be it pilot or controller,
you have introduced lots of uncertainty, but that isn't the same as
having an uncertain procedure.


Matt

That couldn't be more obvious. I never was speaking to an ambiguous
procedure. I believe we were speaking (the thread is) about radio calls
removing uncertainty and the "cost" of doing business in that manner.

JB