On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 00:09:18 GMT, EDR
wrote:

I did my BFR last month in a PA28-181. It is an airplane new to the
flying club I belong to and although I have more than 60 hours in type,
the owner requires anyone who desires to rent it, have an instructor
checkout.

Prior to the flight I calculated a weight and balance and appropriate
speeds for the actual takeoff and landing weights.

I started to pull for takeoff at the calculated speed and the
instructor said, "No, no, wait until 65 kts."
Okay.

Why do you want to hold it on the ground that long? I own a '67
PA28-235 and couldn't tell you the actual rotation speed. When it
wants to fly, let it fly! I do know it is well below 65Kts though
cause I've seen the airspeed pass through it as I'm gaining altitude.

For the first landing, I stated the calculated 1.5Vso and 1.3Vso speeds.
The instructor again said, "No, no, that's too slow. Use 75 kts."
I'd rather 70kts as a rule of thumb. The only advantage this gives
you is slightly better control effectiveness, otherwise use what
you're comfortable with.


When we were on the ground, I asked him why he wanted the faster speeds.
His answer was that this was not a new airplane, so the book values
needed to be increased to allow for age related things that could
affect the noted V-speeds.
Puppycock! (And many other expletives as well). Arguments can be made
that dirt and grime accumulate and make an airplane heavier. No one
considers the fact that radios way back when weighed a heck of a lot
more than they do now. I took about 30 lbs. of extraneous crap and
wiring out of my plane when I bought it. IMO it's a trade off and his
rule is not a good one. How's it Feel at the speed you're flying. If
it feels good great, if it doesn't feel good adjust a little bit.


I can understand the reasoning for a student pilot, the likes of which
this instructor does a lot of training with, but I am 1200+ and over 20
years of flying. I am thinking in terms of performance as would apply
to the Commercial standards. Hence, the reason for calculating the
necessary speeds prior to flight.

I will add that flying at the instructor's recommended speeds leads to
float in the roundout and required more runway. Flying at the
calculated speeds would have resulted in a full stall landing at the
threshhold and clearing at the first turnoff.
If you start your "round out" earlier you can still land on the
threshold, but then you'd be going below his required speeds. So, yes
listening to him wastes runway needlessly.


What is the perspective of the instructors in this group?
He's a 141 rat that needs to learn how to fly a wing, and not the
airspeed indicator. (I know I'm being hard and don't know the guy,
but what you wrote doesn't make sense.)

The instructor I fly with knows me. Why would he not hold me to
Commercial standards?
This is not (yet) required for completion of a BFR.