Stand by for more regulations/restrictions

Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a lot
fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's so
hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are our
own worst enemy.
Clyde

There are a lot of posts defending GA. I find that my patience is waning for
pilots that violate the DC airspace. We've only had, what--four years of
constant drilling on the ADIZ procedures and their level of importance? In
the era of $250 handheld GPS's and flight following, there is zero excuse
for getting lost in the DC area. What's it going to take? Mandatory
revocations of licenses? Aircraft confiscations? a shootdown??

I'm against all of this but the hundreds of ADIZ violations in DC are
swiping the feet out from under anyone trying to protect our privileges. I
remember when people scoffed at the idea of having your car confiscated
after a DWI. But that's what it got to here in NY to see some results. It
took a while, but it took a seemingly ridiculous action like that to see a
reduction in DWI's in NY. I'm afraid general aviation and the DC airspace
problem is going down a similar path.

Military pilots have a "wash-out" program and entrance into that program
takes only minor mistakes. I think aviation needs a better "wach-out"
program with higher visibility.

my 2 cents. Flame on.

Marco Leon

"Clyde Woempner" wrote in message
...
Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a
lot
fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's so
hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are
our
own worst enemy.
Clyde





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I'm against all of this but the hundreds of ADIZ violations in DC are
swiping the feet out from under anyone trying to protect our privileges. I
remember when people scoffed at the idea of having your car confiscated
after a DWI. But that's what it got to here in NY to see some results. It
took a while, but it took a seemingly ridiculous action like that to see a
reduction in DWI's in NY. I'm afraid general aviation and the DC airspace
problem is going down a similar path.

Well put, Marco.

Military pilots have a "wash-out" program and entrance into that program
takes only minor mistakes. I think aviation needs a better "wach-out"
program with higher visibility.

I don't think the solution is to "wash-out" pilots at the start. What
happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good pilot,
and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for 35
years and screw you and your rules" attitude.

I hope AOPA makes a huge deal out of this by printing the PIC's picture in
the mag and on their website. Peer pressure is the only thing that is going
to stop this kind of crap.

Either that, or we can wait for the Feds to "solve" it for us.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 5/12/2005 10:16, Jay Honeck wrote:

I'm against all of this but the hundreds of ADIZ violations in DC are
swiping the feet out from under anyone trying to protect our privileges. I
remember when people scoffed at the idea of having your car confiscated
after a DWI. But that's what it got to here in NY to see some results. It
took a while, but it took a seemingly ridiculous action like that to see a
reduction in DWI's in NY. I'm afraid general aviation and the DC airspace
problem is going down a similar path.

Well put, Marco.

Military pilots have a "wash-out" program and entrance into that program
takes only minor mistakes. I think aviation needs a better "wach-out"
program with higher visibility.

I don't think the solution is to "wash-out" pilots at the start. What
happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good pilot,
and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for 35
years and screw you and your rules" attitude.

Where did you hear that? All I got from CNN last night was that the
pilots were questioned and released; nothing about how they got into
the predicament in the first place. Is there more detail published
somewhere?

Thanks,


I hope AOPA makes a huge deal out of this by printing the PIC's picture in
the mag and on their website. Peer pressure is the only thing that is going
to stop this kind of crap.

Either that, or we can wait for the Feds to "solve" it for us.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA

I don't think the solution is to "wash-out" pilots at the start. What
happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good pilot,
and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for
35 years and screw you and your rules" attitude.

Where did you hear that?

Supposition on my part, but what else could it be? The alternative is to
assume that a pilot with THIRTY-FIVE YEARS of experience was unable to
navigate around the most heavily defended (and publicized) ADIZ in the
world!

Any properly motivated pilot should be able to avoid the ADIZ.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

If a pilot can't navigate to within +/- 30 miles of accuracy, then ya know
what? TAKE HIS TICKET AWAY! Allow him to regain his ticket from another 40
hours of training and another checkride (which is more than fair IMHO). I
for one don't want to be sharing the pattern with that guy. And if it was
the other reason you mentioned (that he doesn't give a **** about regs),
then criminal charges are in order. To me he would be no different from that
guy who runs red lights every other day and finally winds up killing half a
family.

Think about the privilege we have in flying. How many other activities can
you think of with the potential for disturbing national governmental
operations because you screwed up? Maybe we need to start holding ourselves
to a higher standard. Heck, it may even improve GA's accident record!

Marco Leon



"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:ItMge.76068$c24.70084@attbi_s72...

Any properly motivated pilot should be able to avoid the ADIZ.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"





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Jay Honeck wrote:

I don't think the solution is to "wash-out" pilots at the start. What
happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good pilot,
and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for
35 years and screw you and your rules" attitude.

Where did you hear that?


Supposition on my part, but what else could it be? The alternative is to
assume that a pilot with THIRTY-FIVE YEARS of experience was unable to
navigate around the most heavily defended (and publicized) ADIZ in the
world!

Any properly motivated pilot should be able to avoid the ADIZ.

My supposition was that some yutz took off from PA, hit direct to
Lumberton on his non-aviation GPS, and just followed that line, come
hell, high water, or TFRs. Then I heard on the news that the student
pilot's family had said he had been concerned about avoiding the ADIZ.
So how did they get into it? It'll be interesting to see what the
details are, when they come out.

What
happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good
pilot,
and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for
35
years and screw you and your rules" attitude.

Show up at an airport, any day, and you'll be suprised how often you see
this attitude. What sucks is that it isn't brought to the attention of
on-looking students so they can learn that it is wrong and that no matter
how old you get or how many hours you have in your log book, stupid is still
stupid. It seems that only after a preventible mistake, incident, or
accident occurs do other pilots start commenting about it and other people
learn from their blood.

I'd be willing to bet that somewhere there is a pilot that has questioned
this instructors methods, decision making, planning, or attitude in the
past. Why didn't that pilot speak up? Why don't we speak up when we see
another pilot do something stupid even if it would possibly save lives or
help preserve other pilots freedoms of flight?

Are we too proud? Too embarassed? Fearfull of critcism? Unsure who to
report such stupidity to? Fear of interrogation by the local FSDO?

What makes pilots clam up and turn away from an offending pilot when they
walk into the FBO bragging about their latest stunt? Disassociation is the
most probable reason, but why not speak up and tell the offender what the
other pilots are all thinking?

I'm not saying that we need to jump all over the offender and embarass him
to the point of never flying again. But I am saying that we should at least
approach the individual at the proper time and place and suggest his actions
could be considered inappropriate and most likely dangerous. The very least
this can do is bring to his attention that people are watching and they
don't like what they see.

Jim

Marco Leon mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote:
If a pilot can't navigate to within +/- 30 miles of accuracy [...] I
for one don't want to be sharing the pattern with that guy.

Actually, I don't think you have to worry about that. If he can't
find the airport, you won't be sharing the pattern with him :-)

"Clyde Woempner" wrote in message
...
Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a
lot
fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's so
hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are
our
own worst enemy.
Clyde


Okay, so on the one hand, you are absolutely correct.

On the other hand, as soon as pointing out that the pilot was clearly not
being one of our best representatives, shouldn't we point out the idiocy of
the response?

Seriously. You have a C150 flying over the capital (being escorted by two
F16's which we can assume are armed). Isn't evacuation a little overkill?
If he had vectored towards a likely target, can we not assume he would have
been shot down by air or ground defenses? Are we equally well defended and
ready for attack by truck? Truck barriers are easaily defeated using a two
truck attack.

How about we run screaming for the hills whenever anything larger than a van
is seen in DC? After all, the only supposed threat from a plane smaller
than cabin class is an NBC weapon that everyone with any sense knows is more
effectively delivered by truck.

The real question is: Why are our leaders are so foolish to fall for their
own feel good rhetoric?