Combat Ready Bush?

Anyone know if G W Bush ever attained combat readiness in the F102?
FWIW the ADC F102 program was 10 transition missions (no weapons
system training) followed by 36 combat crew training missions. The
last mission was a tac-eval check which qualified the stud as combat
ready and to sit alert. If GW didn't compete the training teaching him
to fly was a complete waste. BTW even if his outfit had gone to Nam he
wouldn't have gone as a crew member unless he was combat-ready.
Walt BJ

"WaltBJ" wrote in message
om...
Anyone know if G W Bush ever attained combat readiness in the F102?
FWIW the ADC F102 program was 10 transition missions (no weapons
system training) followed by 36 combat crew training missions. The
last mission was a tac-eval check which qualified the stud as combat
ready and to sit alert. If GW didn't compete the training teaching him
to fly was a complete waste. BTW even if his outfit had gone to Nam he
wouldn't have gone as a crew member unless he was combat-ready.
Walt BJ

I have no earthly idea why you posted this same general set of questions
twice in two different posts...Yes, he completed his training. No, there was
not much question of his *unit* being sent to Vietnam--they were instead
sending individual volunteers as part of Palace Alert (and not only to
Vietnam--PA could just as easily have sent an ANG pilot to Europe, Japan, or
Iceland).

Brooks

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, WaltBJ
confessed the following:

Anyone know if G W Bush ever attained combat readiness in the F102?

I believe the date of his MR status was June 1970...22 months later he
flew his last sortie.

If GW didn't compete the training teaching him to fly was a complete waste.

How 'bout 12 months UPT plus 7 months elapsed (Nov - Jun) to become
MR and then ONLY 22 months honing your craft. Anybody that did that
was wasting JP-4, hours that some other swing dick could have flown.
How do you lose interest in flying fighters so fast?

Robey

Robey Price wrote:

How do you lose interest in flying fighters so fast?

Just so we understand: you ask that because you never did it? Or because
you never did anything else?

If you are somewhere in between, you probably know that full time active
duty fighter pilots were in short supply relative to our needs, and guys
who could do it, but wouldn't have done it as a career, were called upon
to fill in. When the requirement decreased they went back to their
higher priorities. That's what the ANG is for, yesterday and today.


Jack

On 8 Sep 2004 19:57:23 -0700, (WaltBJ) wrote:

Anyone know if G W Bush ever attained combat readiness in the F102?

Yes. See www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm

(It was the F-102A. Bush also had some hours in the TF-102A.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com

Jack wrote in message .com...
Robey Price wrote:
How do you lose interest in flying fighters so fast?
Just so we understand: you ask that because you never did it? Or because you never did anything else?
If you are somewhere in between, you probably know that full time active
duty fighter pilots were in short supply relative to our needs, and guys
who could do it, but wouldn't have done it as a career, were called upon
to fill in. When the requirement decreased they went back to their
higher priorities. That's what the ANG is for, yesterday and today.
Jack

Flying fighters is an idiosyncratic thing. Some love it, some put up
with it, some hate it. A lot rpt lot of ANG pilots joined up just to
fly fighters because the active force had no spots for them. Some fly
airliners as a job, fighters for fun. In 1976-1980 I worked with 4 ANG
and 1 Reserve outfit and can tell you that back then 2 of those
outfits would have given any of the active fighter squadrons a run for
their money. They were top-notch performers and full of people who
wanted to excel.
Walt BJ
Walt BJ

Robey Price wrote in message . ..

How do you lose interest in flying fighters so fast?

Robey

Sir,
It is said that he found a more satisfying 'high'.
Do the annual military aviator physicals include drug tests for coke?

On 11 Sep 2004 07:01:35 -0700, wrote:

Robey Price wrote in message . ..

How do you lose interest in flying fighters so fast?

Robey

Sir,
It is said that he found a more satisfying 'high'.
Do the annual military aviator physicals include drug tests for coke?

First, if your unit is transitioning to a new aircraft and you don't
have sufficient retainability to qualify for the re-qual, you don't
get trained. It isn't losing interest.

Second, if your unit is becoming a training squadron vice an
operational squadron and you don't have sufficient experience to
become an instructor in the training unit, you don't get upgraded. It
isn't losing interest.

Third, drug testing was not routine during the period in question. It
was available to commanders on a "suspicion" basis but seldom
applicable to aircrews. Random drug testing for lower rank enlisted
came into practice in '73-74 and was expanded to all ranks by the end
of the decade long after Bush was discharged from the ANG.

Fourth, even when drug testing was instituted, it was NEVER part of a
flight physical which was a scheduled event--hence a druggie could
clean up before the physical. Drug testing was separate, done under
controlled conditions and with samples handled in a total different
chain than urinalysis from annual physicals.

Fifth, some folks don't have an all-encompassing interest in flying
fighters for a career. They may have other goals and ambitions.
Nothing at all unusual about that.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Ed Rasimus
confessed the following:

First, if your unit is transitioning to a new aircraft and you don't
have sufficient retainability to qualify for the re-qual, you don't
get trained. It isn't losing interest.

Bull**** and you know it. A 6 year obligation gives you sufficient
retainability. Period. The unit spent the time and money to send you
to UPT, the prudent thing (vice "fraud, waste, and abuse") would be to
get a return on the ANG's/AF's investment. gwb lost interest, he never
said he was ineligble. gwb signed a statement of intent in 1968,
saying he planned to make flying in the TX ANG a life long commitment.
There is no evidence that he even attempted to fulfill that "promise."
He never said he lost interest, but his action sure did.

For a guy that is reportedly well thought of as an F-102 pilot, the
unit didn't make the "fraternity rush" to keep him. A guy doesn't show
up or make an attempt to fly, the obvious conclusion is he lost
interest.

Second, if your unit is becoming a training squadron vice an
operational squadron and you don't have sufficient experience to
become an instructor in the training unit, you don't get upgraded. It
isn't losing interest.

As the training officer in a line squadron I processed paperwork to
make guys IPs with less than 500 hours...some approved some not. The
111th FIS still had F-102s on hand thru 1973. Plenty of time for a guy
that wanted to make the transition to get the minimum 500 hours. And
the USAF/ANG these nice things called "waivers."

Want proof? A co-worker flew F-15 Albinos, never dropped a bomb in his
life. Got hired as an A-7 RTU IP at Tuscon when the wing was
converting to F-16s. He flew the SLUF for 10 months. Then he
transitioned to the F-16. ANG/AFRes units hire C-5 pilots to be FACs,
F-16 guys to fly C-130s, C-141 pilots to fly A-10s.

If a unit thinks highly enough of a guy/gal they will hire them. ANG
units favor folks already in the unit...happens all the time.

Fifth, some folks don't have an all-encompassing interest in flying
fighters for a career. They may have other goals and ambitions.
Nothing at all unusual about that.

True enough, but everyone I ever met kept flying as long as they
could.

Robey

On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:37:54 GMT, Robey Price
wrote:

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Ed Rasimus
confessed the following:

First, if your unit is transitioning to a new aircraft and you don't
have sufficient retainability to qualify for the re-qual, you don't
get trained. It isn't losing interest.

Bull**** and you know it.

A very logical, reasoned and well-crafted entry to the argument. Can't
you at least save the scatology until the end/

A 6 year obligation gives you sufficient
retainability. Period.

It give you great retainability after 4.5 years--you've got a year and
a half to go. BUT, and this is an important distinction, Bush was an
ANG pilot and not a full-timer. So, that means the transition would
require full-time VOLUNTARY activation for the check-out and then
would return only minimal IP effectiveness or operational return in
the new system.

The unit spent the time and money to send you
to UPT, the prudent thing (vice "fraud, waste, and abuse") would be to
get a return on the ANG's/AF's investment.

In 1971, I was running the USAF Undergraduate Rated Officer Assignment
shop at Randolph--a MAJCOM staff position that handled input and
graduate assignment for USAF flying training programs. The annual
pilot training production for all services was slashed from a peak of
near 5500/year in USAF to half of that. The Navy was similarly
slashed.

While the USAF chose to turn off production at the recruiter--stop
further input, the NAVY chose to walk into Pensacola one morning and
release more than 400 student officers in pilot training, some who
were within two weeks of graduation. Several of those with all that
training time and money invested petitioned for service transfer and
the USAF picked them up.

The point is that during '71-'73, the AF was overwhelmed with pilots.
We had no shortage, in fact we were creating the "Rated Supplement" to
warehouse pilots in "career broadening" ground jobs because there were
no cockpit slots available.

Lots of folks were leaving the active duty force and eager to seek ANG
and AFRES slots. Many had loads of experience and since the airlines
were over-loaded with applicants they were looking for jobs.

gwb lost interest, he never
said he was ineligble. gwb signed a statement of intent in 1968,
saying he planned to make flying in the TX ANG a life long commitment.

No one ever signed up for active or reserve duty to a "life long
commitment." No one. You had an active duty service commitment. It
varied at times, but could also be modified either to shorten or
lengthen based on needs of the service. When I came on active duty in
'64 it was four years. Later it went to six. Sometimes it was
curtailed to reduce the force. Never was it "life long"--Can I return
your "bull****" with interest at this point?



Second, if your unit is becoming a training squadron vice an
operational squadron and you don't have sufficient experience to
become an instructor in the training unit, you don't get upgraded. It
isn't losing interest.

As the training officer in a line squadron I processed paperwork to
make guys IPs with less than 500 hours...some approved some not. The
111th FIS still had F-102s on hand thru 1973. Plenty of time for a guy
that wanted to make the transition to get the minimum 500 hours. And
the USAF/ANG these nice things called "waivers."

Want proof? A co-worker flew F-15 Albinos, never dropped a bomb in his
life. Got hired as an A-7 RTU IP at Tuscon when the wing was
converting to F-16s. He flew the SLUF for 10 months. Then he
transitioned to the F-16. ANG/AFRes units hire C-5 pilots to be FACs,
F-16 guys to fly C-130s, C-141 pilots to fly A-10s.

Once again you are garbling full-time (the F-15A guy) who probably
accrued 1000 hours operational by the time he separated going to work
as an RTU IP (a full-time Guard slot).

When needs are high, one thing happens. When supply exceeds demand,
something else occurs.

"I know a guy" isn't a good basis for generalizations.

If a unit thinks highly enough of a guy/gal they will hire them. ANG
units favor folks already in the unit...happens all the time.

Fifth, some folks don't have an all-encompassing interest in flying
fighters for a career. They may have other goals and ambitions.
Nothing at all unusual about that.

True enough, but everyone I ever met kept flying as long as they
could.

Good for you. A lot of guys I know kept flying for as long as they
could. A lot of others sought fame and fortune up the staff-officer
career ladder to become generals. Still others got out and became
doctors, lawyers, and indian chiefs. A lot of guys walk away from
their last ride in a fighter and never look back. So what?



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org