KCHD to KMYF

Plan to be in the Phoenix area towards the middle of May, enroute to KMYF.

What route would you recommend from the Phoenix area to KMYF ?

RT12 writes:

Plan to be in the Phoenix area towards the middle of May, enroute to KMYF.

What route would you recommend from the Phoenix area to KMYF ?

GBN and V66 westbound. It's about the only economical path that allows you to
sneak between the many restricted areas west of Phoenix.

Mxsmanic wrote:

RT12 writes:

Plan to be in the Phoenix area towards the middle of May, enroute to
KMYF.

What route would you recommend from the Phoenix area to KMYF ?

GBN and V66 westbound. It's about the only economical path that allows
you to sneak between the many restricted areas west of Phoenix.

Yes, that's pretty much the route. There's quite a bit of military traffic around GBN (F-16's from Luke
AFB) and also around Yuma so going IFR or flight following if VFR is a good idea. The last time I made
that trip, it was hazy VFR and they gave me the ILS approach into KMYF. Gibbs Flying Service is a great
FBO. Have a good trip.

Mike

O.P. did not state whether VFR or IFR, did not indicate a preference to fly
airways or whether he wished to avoid special use airspace. He could file
direct (or just fly) after checking airspace status.



In article ,
says...


Mxsmanic wrote:

RT12 writes:

Plan to be in the Phoenix area towards the middle of May, enroute to
KMYF.

What route would you recommend from the Phoenix area to KMYF ?

GBN and V66 westbound. It's about the only economical path that allows
you to sneak between the many restricted areas west of Phoenix.

Yes, that's pretty much the route. There's quite a bit of military traffic
around GBN (F-16's from Luke
AFB) and also around Yuma so going IFR or flight following if VFR is a good
idea. The last time I made
that trip, it was hazy VFR and they gave me the ILS approach into KMYF. Gibbs
Flying Service is a great
FBO. Have a good trip.

Mike

VOR-DME writes:

O.P. did not state whether VFR or IFR, did not indicate a preference to fly
airways or whether he wished to avoid special use airspace. He could file
direct (or just fly) after checking airspace status.

Direct might be a challenge, since KPHX-KMYF direct would take him through
half a dozen restricted areas, some of which are continuously active and
extend to 80,000 feet MSL (missile firing ranges). V66 is a corridor that
passes between the restricted areas (in fact, it looks like the restricted
areas and airway were deliberately designed that way), and it's only 10 nm
longer than a direct route (a 4% increase).

The Great American West is filled with wide open spaces, but unfortunately the
U.S. military has confiscated many of them, especially in the desert
southwest.

MX knows quite a bit about aviation from a "theoretical" standpoint, but
because he does not actually practice any of it, he doesn't know how it
works. I would not add even 10nm to my route simply out of fear of making a
radio call. I will file, or just fly what works for me, and not go out of my
way unless I have to. Nine times out of ten they give you what you ask for,
exception being the busy Northeast.

MX cannot offer any real insight or advice on flying, not only because he
does not fly, but because he is terrified of airplanes and actual flying.



In article ,
says...


Direct might be a challenge, since KPHX-KMYF direct would take him through
half a dozen restricted areas, some of which are continuously active and
extend to 80,000 feet MSL (missile firing ranges). V66 is a corridor that
passes between the restricted areas (in fact, it looks like the restricted
areas and airway were deliberately designed that way), and it's only 10 nm
longer than a direct route (a 4% increase).

The Great American West is filled with wide open spaces, but unfortunately
the
U.S. military has confiscated many of them, especially in the desert
southwest.

VOR-DME writes:

MX knows quite a bit about aviation from a "theoretical" standpoint, but
because he does not actually practice any of it, he doesn't know how it
works. I would not add even 10nm to my route simply out of fear of making a
radio call. I will file, or just fly what works for me, and not go out of my
way unless I have to. Nine times out of ten they give you what you ask for,
exception being the busy Northeast.

If you have a problem with my recommendation of V66, then explain exactly what
is wrong with it. It seems to work for thousands of pilots, so why wouldn't it
work for you?

Yes, you can call Yuma Range Control or whoever and try to get permission to
pass through a dozen different restricted areas, and hope that neither they
nor you screw anything up that might result in a missile coming your way or a
letter from the FAA, but why bother? You'll save only three minutes out of a
ninety-minute flight. Sheesh. What's bad about being prudent and keeping
things simple?

There are no airways over these restricted areas. Why do you think that is?
Perhaps in part because so many of them are continuously active and extend far
above any altitude that you can fly (often 80,000 feet, and at least one has
an unlimited ceiling).

If you look at filed flight plans for the area, you'll see that V66 is
overwhelmingly favored for flights between the Valley of the Sun and the San
Diego area. J2 follows the same path between the restricted areas, and it is
very commonly used by jets, too.

So why do things the hard way, when you can do them the easy way? Just follow
V66 and you're good. It's not rocket science, and you don't have to be Chuck
Yeager or an ATP with 15,000 hours to understand it.

For what it's worth, I've flown that route thousands of times in simulation,
and probably 100 or so times in real life (as a passenger). I also happen to
know that entire region extremely well, both from the air and from the ground.
I therefore know whereof I speak. I would not presume to make recommendations
for other parts of the U.S. with which I'm not familiar, but that route
happens to be one that I know very well indeed.

I am a prudent pilot in simulation, just as I would be in real life. I have no
fear of radio calls; in fact, I fly IFR a great deal and prefer it if the
weather is less than perfect (although it's often quite favorable along V66).
I generally go around restricted areas, rather than try to get permission to
go through them, depending on their schedules, ceilings, distribution, etc. I
know one can sometimes get permission to pass through them, but I'm not in a
rush (people are more likely to die when they're in a rush), and complicating
a flight increases the likelihood of making a mistake. I've called Joshua
occasionally to try to take a shortcut through some of those pesky areas
around Edwards AFB and China Lake (which I was granted), but that was mostly
just curiosity. Slow and safe is best.

On May 2, 7:42*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
VOR-DME writes:
MX knows quite a bit about aviation from a "theoretical" standpoint, but
because he does not actually practice any of it, he doesn't know how it
works. I would not add even 10nm to my route simply out of fear of making a
radio call. I will file, or just fly what works for me, and not go out of my
way unless I have to. Nine times out of ten they give you what you ask for,
exception being the busy Northeast.

If you have a problem with my recommendation of V66, then explain exactly what
is wrong with it. It seems to work for thousands of pilots, so why wouldn't it
work for you?

Yes, you can call Yuma Range Control or whoever and try to get permission to
pass through a dozen different restricted areas, and hope that neither they
nor you screw anything up that might result in a missile coming your way or a
letter from the FAA, but why bother? You'll save only three minutes out of a
ninety-minute flight. Sheesh. What's bad about being prudent and keeping
things simple?

There are no airways over these restricted areas. Why do you think that is?
Perhaps in part because so many of them are continuously active and extend far
above any altitude that you can fly (often 80,000 feet, and at least one has
an unlimited ceiling).

If you look at filed flight plans for the area, you'll see that V66 is
overwhelmingly favored for flights between the Valley of the Sun and the San
Diego area. J2 follows the same path between the restricted areas, and it is
very commonly used by jets, too.

So why do things the hard way, when you can do them the easy way? Just follow
V66 and you're good. It's not rocket science, and you don't have to be Chuck
Yeager or an ATP with 15,000 hours to understand it.

For what it's worth, I've flown that route thousands of times in simulation,
and probably 100 or so times in real life (as a passenger). I also happen to
know that entire region extremely well, both from the air and from the ground.
I therefore know whereof I speak. I would not presume to make recommendations
for other parts of the U.S. with which I'm not familiar, but that route
happens to be one that I know very well indeed.

I am a prudent pilot in simulation, just as I would be in real life. I have no
fear of radio calls; in fact, I fly IFR a great deal and prefer it if the
weather is less than perfect (although it's often quite favorable along V66).
I generally go around restricted areas, rather than try to get permission to
go through them, depending on their schedules, ceilings, distribution, etc. I
know one can sometimes get permission to pass through them, but I'm not in a
rush (people are more likely to die when they're in a rush), and complicating
a flight increases the likelihood of making a mistake. I've called Joshua
occasionally to try to take a shortcut through some of those pesky areas
around Edwards AFB and China Lake (which I was granted), but that was mostly
just curiosity. Slow and safe is best.

On the other hand, it can't get much safer than calling the relevant
authority and saying "Mooney XYZ requests present position direct to
where ever", being told to squawk a given code and being offered radar
separation if one is VFR. That is not rocket science and is safe
flying.

I think off airways with radar separation is safer than VFR on
airways, although my own reality is to be under IFR for nearly any
cross country, simply because it's easier and safer flying.

The problem I have is with non-pilots, who don’t know the system, giving
advice to pilots.
"Slow and safe" is only best for non-pilots who are afraid of flying. "Fast
and ask for what you want" is the normal way, and it’s what everyone is
expecting. If you don’t get it, you take what you get. Most pilots’ idea of
"keeping things simple" is saying where you’re going and asking for what you
want.



In article ,
says...

If you have a problem with my recommendation of V66, then explain exactly
what
is wrong with it. Sheesh. What's bad about being prudent and keeping
things simple?

Slow and safe is best.

VOR-DME writes:

The problem I have is with non-pilots, who don’t know the system, giving
advice to pilots.

In other words, you can't find anything wrong with the suggestion to follow
V66. Your problem is with me, specifically. Like many people, you cannot
discriminate between personality and topic of conversation. You cannot be
objective because you always consider the messenger before the message.

Now ... exactly what's wrong with V66? Not with me, but with the suggestion I
gave. Be specific. I _do_ know the system.

"Slow and safe" is only best for non-pilots who are afraid of flying.

Like the old saying goes: There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but
there are no old, bold pilots. Flying safely has nothing to do with fear, and
it has everything to do with reason and intelligence.

Not that there's anything inherently unsafe about asking permission to fly
over all those firing ranges. But you only gain three minutes, and there are
many opportunities for mistakes to be made when you want to take shortcuts
through restricted areas, even if the controlling authorities give you
permission. You complicate your flight greatly for an insignificant gain. That
is not logical.

The opposite of slow and safe is fast and unsafe. Is that your suggestion?

"Fast and ask for what you want" is the normal way, and it’s what everyone is
expecting.

Why does so much traffic follow V66/J2, then? Why did the government bother
creating these airways and threading them between restricted areas if the
majority of pilots are just going to set Direct-To on the GPS and negotiate
their way through missile firing ranges?

If you don’t get it, you take what you get. Most pilots’ idea of
"keeping things simple" is saying where you’re going and asking for what you
want.

Not true, given the number of aircraft that are flying those airways. You
don't have to ask for anything if you follow the routes that are already there
and ready for you to fly.