Hot Spark Ignition

A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed from a
late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered Murphy Renegade.
If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance itself as much as 35
degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?

I want to use one on the IO-360 Continental. And did you know ---- full
advance timing on that engine is 20 degrees btdc? It doesn't seem right,
does it?

Lightspeed Klaus used to advance timing on his O-200 to as much as 45 deg.
btdc. I wonder if he still does. I was just reading Klaus's
denunciation of the magneto as something of an ancient relic. I think I
agree with him.

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:06:48 -0500, "Larry Smith"
wrote:

A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed from a
late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered Murphy Renegade.
If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance itself as much as 35
degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?

Friend of mine (a very CHEAP friend of mine) did the same thing with the
O-290 on his T-18, except he based his on a late '80s GM electronic
ignition. Eventually got it working fine, but he fought an EMI problem for
quite a while. Ran fine on the ground, but it would start misfiring just
after clearing the fence on takeoff....

Ron Wanttaja

"I have a VW engine in a gyro, using this system and it is terrific. Easy
start, smooth idle , two of everything. My cyl head is drilled and tapped
for twin plugs. www.leburg.freeserve.co.uk/
I would reccomend it to anyone.
Ken Reynolds

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:06:48 -0500, "Larry Smith"
wrote:

A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed from a
late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered Murphy Renegade.
If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance itself as much as 35
degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?

I want to use one on the IO-360 Continental. And did you know ---- full
advance timing on that engine is 20 degrees btdc? It doesn't seem right,
does it?

Doesn't *SEEM* right?

WoW....
Here's a piece of solid engineering data
we can hang our hats on and put to good use.

Inform Continental immediately of your discovery.
Save the world... and maybe a whale or two? g

Lightspeed Klaus used to advance timing on his O-200 to as much as 45 deg.
btdc. I wonder if he still does. I was just reading Klaus's
denunciation of the magneto as something of an ancient relic. I think I
agree with him.

1. Isn't Klaus's denunciation..... an infomercial?
2. Has not "thinking" gotten you into a ton of trouble, before?

P.S.
Purchased that T-Craft prop yet?

If you think that prop is expensive...
Write a check for two of Klaus's spark boxes.
Better yet, try again having great fun with a credit card.

FWIW --
I'm into cost benefit ratios that benefit ME,
not the seller of a 'better' mouse trap.

In the marketplace....
The magneto remains a very intelligent
and viable choice for most GA missions.


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

Larry Smith a écrit:

A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed
from a late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered
Murphy Renegade. If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance
itself as much as 35
degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?

I just completed a similar thing.
An old magneto without coil, points...
I drill the distributor and bolt two magnetic sensor at 90° angle
I made a steel plate in the distributor gear for one pulse each 180°
I purchased a CDI box from M&W (http://www.mwignition.com) and two
coils.
On workbench, I read for 2500 rpm.

Now I have a CDI distributorless left ignition and a magneto right
ignition. Advance is set at 30°, but I think I will set a little more
(33-35°). I may install two other sensors for right CDI ignition.

The fisrt start on friday, 13.
Very nice iddle, very easy start in cold weather... 1st flight within
2 days. A long ground test planed this afternoon for engine and
radios tests.

Wish list: a microcontroller with MAP and RPM advance settings.

My engine: A65-8F
My plane: minicab F-PRAZ


By
--
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬

"Philippe Vessaire" wrote in message
news
Larry Smith a écrit:

A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed
from a late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered
Murphy Renegade. If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance
itself as much as 35
degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?

I just completed a similar thing.
An old magneto without coil, points...
I drill the distributor and bolt two magnetic sensor at 90° angle
I made a steel plate in the distributor gear for one pulse each 180°
I purchased a CDI box from M&W (http://www.mwignition.com) and two
coils.
On workbench, I read for 2500 rpm.

Now I have a CDI distributorless left ignition and a magneto right
ignition. Advance is set at 30°, but I think I will set a little more
(33-35°). I may install two other sensors for right CDI ignition.

The fisrt start on friday, 13.
Very nice iddle, very easy start in cold weather... 1st flight within
2 days. A long ground test planed this afternoon for engine and
radios tests.

Wish list: a microcontroller with MAP and RPM advance settings.

My engine: A65-8F
My plane: minicab F-PRAZ


By
--
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬


Good for you, Phillip. Keep us posted.

"- Barnyard BOb -" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:06:48 -0500, "Larry Smith"
wrote:

A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed from a
late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered Murphy
Renegade.
If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance itself as much as 35
degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?

I want to use one on the IO-360 Continental. And did you know ----
full
advance timing on that engine is 20 degrees btdc? It doesn't seem
right,
does it?

Doesn't *SEEM* right?

Ja, Bob, that's retarded, relatively speaking.


WoW....
Here's a piece of solid engineering data
we can hang our hats on and put to good use.

Ja, Bob, and I'm not even an engineer. Does it tell you something that
spark timing on autos has "advanced" into this century while spark timing on
aircraft engines is mired up in the 20th?

Engine experts will tell you that the Continental IO-360 has a primitive
ignition system and an outmoded low-pressure induction. It's a great
engine. It just needs some tweaking. On the other hand I may leave mine
stock. I have flown an assbuster or two before and at my age no longer
want to push the envelopes. I'll let the young whippersnappers do that.


Inform Continental immediately of your discovery.
Save the world... and maybe a whale or two? g

You can be sure they've been playing, experimenting with something like
Unison's Lasar in their skunkworks wing.


Lightspeed Klaus used to advance timing on his O-200 to as much as 45
deg.
btdc. I wonder if he still does. I was just reading Klaus's
denunciation of the magneto as something of an ancient relic. I think I
agree with him.

1. Isn't Klaus's denunciation..... an infomercial?

Yeah, but if you've seen how his ignition will shoot a hot spark across an
..040 gap and fire fouled plugs a mag can't budge, you'd be sold.

2. Has not "thinking" gotten you into a ton of trouble, before?

Hell, no.

Klaus's ignition works. So does the Electroair. This is
rec.aviation.experimental. Be in it.

Variable timing ignition is more efficient, saves fuel, gets you there
quicker.

I know at least 2 A&P's who are fascinated with auto engines in aeroplanes.
One is building up a Subaru at the time for his airplane; another is
building a Piet which he's gonna put a flathead Ford engine in. We got an
A&P at Rutherfordton who thinks Franklin engines are great and has a
Franklin in his Rallye. Isn't a Franklin an auto engine?

We have 2 builders in our club putting those diminutive 30-hp Continental
gpu engines in their Mini-Max airplanes. They should be using VW engines
instead.


P.S.
Purchased that T-Craft prop yet?

I'm balking at $2250. That's about $500 more than for a brand-new prop for
an O-320. It defies logic. I already have 2 Sensenich woodies, one for
climb and one for cruise. The cruiser hangs on the wall. I'd buy a 1B90
7445 for $1800. McCauley acts like it doesn't even want to manufacture
aluminum props for the small engines any more. So does Sensenich.


If you think that prop is expensive...
Write a check for two of Klaus's spark boxes.
Better yet, try again having great fun with a credit card.

Yeah, he's pricey, so I may try my friend's setup, or Electroair, or the
Continental version of Lasar. You just go by once, you know.


FWIW --
I'm into cost benefit ratios that benefit ME,
not the seller of a 'better' mouse trap.

In the marketplace....
The magneto remains a very intelligent
and viable choice for most GA missions.

Maybe I'll stay with those good ol' S6LN-25's set at a droll 20 deg. btdc.
One of them throws a shower of sparks, but only for a second or two.


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

Over 51 now. Hasn't a year ticked over?

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:52:11 -0500, "Larry Smith"
wrote:

Doesn't *SEEM* right?

Ja, Bob, that's retarded, relatively speaking.


WoW....
Here's a piece of solid engineering data
we can hang our hats on and put to good use.

Ja, Bob, and I'm not even an engineer. Does it tell you something that
spark timing on autos has "advanced" into this century while spark timing on
aircraft engines is mired up in the 20th?

What your reply tells me is --
until you are more engineer than lawyer...
lawyers know jack **** about advance
or timing... except as it applies to collecting
monies from clients and adversaries.

Inform Continental immediately of your discovery.
Save the world... and maybe a whale or two? g

You can be sure they've been playing, experimenting with something like
Unison's Lasar in their skunkworks wing.

SO?

Lightspeed Klaus used to advance timing on his O-200 to as much as 45
deg.
btdc. I wonder if he still does. I was just reading Klaus's
denunciation of the magneto as something of an ancient relic. I think I
agree with him.

1. Isn't Klaus's denunciation..... an infomercial?

Yeah, but if you've seen how his ignition will shoot a hot spark across an
.040 gap and fire fouled plugs a mag can't budge, you'd be sold.

I am sold.
I'm just not gonna write an outrageous check for an
upgrade that is not required and CANNOT BE JUSTIFIED
by my current airworthy application.

You may be a dumb **** that just gotta have the latest
and greatest to stay ahead of the Jones's. I *do not*.

2. Has not "thinking" gotten you into a ton of trouble, before?

Hell, no.

Klaus's ignition works.
So does the Electroair.

So do magnetos... at a far, far lesser price.

This is rec.aviation.experimental. Be in it.

Quit the cheap shots and condescending horse****. OK?
I've was in experimental aviation before you got out of diapers.

BTW, this is...... rec.aviation.homebuilt ---
Does anybody that takes issue with me know where they're at?

Sheesh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Variable timing ignition is more efficient, saves fuel, gets you there
quicker.

Let the spin stop for a moment.

Give me some hard numbers that I can take to the bank.
My calculator sez...it will take me a gazillions years to
recoup an investment in any upgrade priced like Klaus's
at the current price of auto fuel and the hours I fly per year.

Figure this, too....
When a Klaus unit drops dead and I can't find Klaus or I'm
cross country and need to get home what do I do? Buy
a standard magneto to get home and then mail the offending
high priced Klaus unit to the Republik of Kalifonia for service?
I'll pass, thank you.

As an advocate...
you ain't **** until you part with your cold hard cash for the
above product. Until you do, your call for me to join in
rec.aviation.experimental? is as hollow and empty as your
friggin' head. I own and fly experimental now and began it
with a Fly Baby in the early '60's and belonged to the EAA
when Rockford was the cool place to go.


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

- Barnyard BOb - wrote:
Ja, Bob, and I'm not even an engineer. Does it tell you something that
spark timing on autos has "advanced" into this century while spark timing on
aircraft engines is mired up in the 20th?


What your reply tells me is --
until you are more engineer than lawyer...
lawyers know jack **** about advance
or timing... except as it applies to collecting
monies from clients and adversaries.

This reminds me of a conversation I witnessed between a sales guy and a
lawyer. The lawyer worked for a large firm on K street. He was in
charge of technology on a couple of really, really large cases which
involved the preparation and exchange of millions of pages of
information. The sales guy (a friend of mine for some years) had sold
the firm on a particular method of handling the documents
electronically. Things hadn't been going well. (In fact, that's why
the sales guy called my company in. We had, on a couple of previous
occasions, cleaned up the mess made by his company.) During a misguided
effort to "bond" with the lawyer, the following exchange occurred:

SG: Law fascinates me.
Lawyer: Hmmm.
SG: I always wished I had become a lawyer.
Lawyer: Hmmm.
SG: My father is a lawyer. And a diplomat. My sister is a lawyer. My
grandfather was a lawyer. It's really ironic that I'm not. I mean,
I've been surrounded by it all my life, and I've been influenced by so
many people, all lawyers. I can't really think of any better heritage
than to come from a long line of lawyers.
Lawyer: Is that so? You feel that being brought up around all those
lawyers made you a better person?
SG: Oh, absolutely. In subtle and not so subtle ways.
Lawyer: Yeah, well everybody in my family was an auto mechanic. I think
I f**ked up.

snip

I am sold.
I'm just not gonna write an outrageous check for an
upgrade that is not required and CANNOT BE JUSTIFIED
by my current airworthy application.

snip

Klaus's ignition works.
So does the Electroair.


So do magnetos... at a far, far lesser price.


snip
Variable timing ignition is more efficient, saves fuel, gets you there
quicker.


Let the spin stop for a moment.

Give me some hard numbers that I can take to the bank.
My calculator sez...it will take me a gazillions years to
recoup an investment in any upgrade priced like Klaus's
at the current price of auto fuel and the hours I fly per year.

Figure this, too....
When a Klaus unit drops dead and I can't find Klaus or I'm
cross country and need to get home what do I do? Buy
a standard magneto to get home and then mail the offending
high priced Klaus unit to the Republik of Kalifonia for service?
I'll pass, thank you.
snip

Some good points on both sides. The new stuff is great; the old stuff
is adequate to the purpose. The new stuff doesn't have decades of
provable success under its proverbial belt. But the old stuff doesn't
make use of anything we've learned in those same decades. Great
discussion, ****ing aside.

Bob, I know you're one of the old hands here at
deja.yahoo.flamebait.experimental, and its great to read a lot of your
stuff. But GD, did I miss something significant in the couple of years
I was away, such that everybody started ****ing on you, or did you get
touchy? I'll go back and read the archives when I have time, but for
now, I'm just happy to have enough time to check in again.

Ben "still not caring whether you all get along, just curious" Sego

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:31:38 GMT, Ben Sego
wrote:

Bob, I know you're one of the old hands here at
deja.yahoo.flamebait.experimental, and its great to read a lot of your
stuff. But GD, did I miss something significant in the couple of years
I was away, such that everybody started ****ing on you,

Ben "still not caring whether you all get along, just curious"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

beaming

Thanx for the back handed compliment, Ben Dover.
When you have time, please funrish your list of "everybody".
I'm sure it's a hoot and is a very fine list of all those that
have distinguished themselves both with credentials and
accomplishments we both admire in the field of aviation.

P.S.
Your slipping...
You didn't ask if I quit beating my wife yet.

Also..
This thread is for Hot Spark Ignition.
Got anything to add that's on topic?


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years tolerating unsuccessful nit****s