Winchester?

When did the turm "Winchester" come into being to mean that you were out of
ammo.
I was trying to explain the term to my daughter and got to thinking that maybe
it has a long history. During my time from 76-94 it was used by the attack guys
as well to signify they were out of all ordnance.
Sparky

(Elmshoot) wrote:

When did the turm "Winchester" come into being to mean that you were out of
ammo.
I was trying to explain the term to my daughter and got to thinking that maybe
it has a long history. During my time from 76-94 it was used by the attack guys
as well to signify they were out of all ordnance.

purest, unqualified, speculation possible

Probably dates back at least to Custer at Little Big Horn, with a
lot of guys yelling that they were running out of Winchester
ammo. Don't you think?

/purest, unqualified, speculation possible

[Second thought. Latest historic research suggest that the
Indians had both more and better {i.e., more recent, and
repeaters to boot} rifles than the 7thCav with their CW-era
breechloaders. Mebbe it was the Indians that were running out of
Winchester ammo.]
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

Ogden Johnson III wrote in message . ..
(Elmshoot) wrote:

When did the turm "Winchester" come into being to mean that you were out of
ammo.
I was trying to explain the term to my daughter and got to thinking that maybe
it has a long history. During my time from 76-94 it was used by the attack guys
as well to signify they were out of all ordnance.

AFAIK it originated in the Vietnam era. Da Nang was the first time I
ran into it, and I'd been flying fighters since 1954.
Walt BJ

"WaltBJ" wrote in message
m...
Ogden Johnson III wrote in message
. ..
(Elmshoot) wrote:

When did the turm "Winchester" come into being to mean that you were out
of
ammo.
I was trying to explain the term to my daughter and got to thinking that
maybe
it has a long history. During my time from 76-94 it was used by the
attack guys
as well to signify they were out of all ordnance.

AFAIK it originated in the Vietnam era. Da Nang was the first time I
ran into it, and I'd been flying fighters since 1954.
Walt BJ

Heard the term used by British fighter pilots during WWII.

Not that this counts as supporting evidence but one WWII flight sim has Brit
pilots saying "I'm Winchester!"

--
The Raven
http://www.80scartoons.co.uk/batfinkquote.mp3
** Now I will bring chaos to the world!

In article , Ogden Johnson III
wrote:

(Elmshoot) wrote:

When did the turm "Winchester" come into being to mean that you were out of
ammo.
I was trying to explain the term to my daughter and got to thinking
that maybe
it has a long history. During my time from 76-94 it was used by the
attack guys
as well to signify they were out of all ordnance.

purest, unqualified, speculation possible

Probably dates back at least to Custer at Little Big Horn, with a
lot of guys yelling that they were running out of Winchester
ammo. Don't you think?


:-D
Good guess, but the cavalry were using Trap Door Springfield carbines
and the cartridges came from government arsenals, not private purchase.
I don't think Winchester were able to chamber the .45-70 in a repeater
until well after Little Big Horn.

/purest, unqualified, speculation possible

[Second thought. Latest historic research suggest that the
Indians had both more and better {i.e., more recent, and
repeaters to boot} rifles than the 7thCav with their CW-era
breechloaders. Mebbe it was the Indians that were running out of
Winchester ammo.]

Indians were armed with Winchesters in .44-40 and .44 Henry.
More rapid firing, but also more limited range. Circumstances seem to indicate
that the troopers were simply overwhelmed by numbers.
But everyone knew that already.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:02:37 -0700, (Harry
Andreas) proclaimed:

More rapid firing, but also more limited range. Circumstances seem to indicate
that the troopers were simply overwhelmed by numbers.

Some say that Custer died wearing an Arrow shirt...

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message

:-D
Good guess, but the cavalry were using Trap Door Springfield carbines
and the cartridges came from government arsenals, not private purchase.
I don't think Winchester were able to chamber the .45-70 in a repeater
until well after Little Big Horn.

Ayup.

/purest, unqualified, speculation possible

[Second thought. Latest historic research suggest that the
Indians had both more and better {i.e., more recent, and
repeaters to boot} rifles than the 7thCav with their CW-era
breechloaders. Mebbe it was the Indians that were running out of
Winchester ammo.]

Indians were armed with Winchesters in .44-40 and .44 Henry.
More rapid firing, but also more limited range. Circumstances seem to
indicate
that the troopers were simply overwhelmed by numbers.
But everyone knew that already.

Surprisingly few do. The myth of "better armed Indians" is alive and well
in spite of the fact that only Custer was overun. Benteen and Reno were
able to hold off their attackers until help arrived.

Still, the Henry was known as "that damn Yankee gun you load on Sunday and
shoot all week" 'cause of its impressive (for the day) 17 round capacity.
The Model '73 (as seen in "Winchester '73") had the same capacity. It was
sold in a military version to at least Turkey and Russia. So maybe there
could be a connection somewhere in the dark reaches of history. ;-)

Bill Kambic

Greasy- Some say that Custer died wearing an Arrow shirt... BRBR

Sporting a new haircut....
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

"SNIP:
Indians were armed with Winchesters in .44-40 and .44 Henry.
More rapid firing, but also more limited range. Circumstances seem to
indicate
that the troopers were simply overwhelmed by numbers.
But everyone knew that already.
Surprisingly few do. The myth of "better armed Indians" is alive and well
in spite of the fact that only Custer was overun. Benteen and Reno were
able to hold off their attackers until help arrived.
Still, the Henry was known as "that damn Yankee gun you load on Sunday and
shoot all week" 'cause of its impressive (for the day) 17 round capacity.
The Model '73 (as seen in "Winchester '73") had the same capacity. It was
sold in a military version to at least Turkey and Russia. So maybe there
could be a connection somewhere in the dark reaches of history. ;-)
Bill Kambic


Get down to your local library and check out "Son of the Morning
Star". Pretty good portrayal of 'Custer's Last Stand'. I've been to
the site - not a good place for a stand-off; really exposed.
Walt BJ

"WaltBJ" wrote in message

Get down to your local library and check out "Son of the Morning
Star". Pretty good portrayal of 'Custer's Last Stand'.

I have a vague recollection of having seen this. Will see it again, though!
:-)

I've been to
the site - not a good place for a stand-off; really exposed.

I visited there back in college. Spooky to imagine standing there seeing
nothing but ****ed off Indians.

There's a guy I met who runs trail rides through that area. One of them
traces Custer's path for a few days. Might do that next fall!

Bill Kambic