How to run a wing?

In the more than 30 years I have been involved in gliding/soaring I
have had my wing run many times, have run other pilot’s wings, and
have taught novices to run wings for ground and aerotow launches.
At a recent national contest I saw a wing running technique that I had
never seen before. I was so concerned about the way my wing was being
handled that I stopped the launch. I was later told that the method
being used was not only common place but safer than the method I am
used to using.

The two methods are as follows:

Method 1 – Runner stands outboard of wing tip facing in the direction
of launch and holding the wing tip trailing edge with the hand nearest
the glider.

Method 2 – Runner stands close behind the wing just inboard of the
wing tip and holds the trailing edge of the wing with both hands.

Possible advantages and disadvantages of each method

For Method 1:

– Wing runner has one arm free to swing and should be able to run
faster than a person holding a wing with both hands.
– In the event of a tail wind launch the wing runner can start
slightly ahead of the wing (Note that “ahead of” does not mean “in
front of”. The wing runner in this case is still outboard of the tip)
– If wing runner falls he will not obstruct the wing.

Against Method 1:

– None known

For Method 2 (My interpretation of what I was told by those advocating
this method):

– Use of two hands makes it possible to hold a heavy wing that could
not be held up by one hand alone.
– Launch is safer because the runner is not in front of the wing.

Against Method 2 (My opinion):

– Wing runner can fall on the wing at the start of the launch risking
personal injury and potentially causing the glider to ground loop.
– A person holding onto something with 2 hands cannot run as fast as
someone with one arm free.
– If the glider is so badly out of balance that 2 hands are needed to
support the wing the launch should not be started.


What wing running technique is used where you fly and, if it is method
2, can you please explain the advantages over method 1?

Andy

On 10 July, 22:27, Andy wrote:
In the more than 30 years I have been involved in gliding/soaring I
have had my wing run many times, have run other pilot’s wings, and
have taught novices to run wings for ground and aerotow launches.
At a recent national contest I saw a wing running technique that I had
never seen before. *I was so concerned about the way my wing was being
handled that I stopped the launch. *I was later told that the method
being used was not only common place but safer than the method I am
used to using.

The two methods are as follows:

Method 1 – Runner stands outboard of wing tip facing in the direction
of launch and holding the wing tip trailing edge with the hand nearest
the glider.

Method 2 – Runner stands close behind the wing just inboard of the
wing tip and holds the trailing edge of the wing with both hands.

Possible advantages and disadvantages of each method

For Method 1:

– * * Wing runner has one arm free to swing and should be able to run
faster than a person holding a wing with both hands.
– * * In the event of a tail wind launch the wing runner can start
slightly ahead of the wing (Note that “ahead of” does not mean “in
front of”. The wing runner in this case is still outboard of the tip)
– * * If wing runner falls he will not obstruct the wing.

Against Method 1:

– * * None known

For Method 2 (My interpretation of what I was told by those advocating
this method):

– * * Use of two hands makes it possible to hold a heavy wing that could
not be held up by one hand alone.
– * * Launch is safer because the runner is not in front of the wing.

Against Method 2 (My opinion):

– * * Wing runner can fall on the wing at the start of the launch risking
personal injury and potentially causing the glider to ground loop.
– * * A person holding onto something with 2 hands cannot run as fast as
someone with one arm free.
– * * If the glider is so badly out of balance that 2 hands are needed to
support the wing the launch should not be started.

What wing running technique is used where you fly and, if it is method
2, can you please explain the advantages over method 1?

Andy

I am impressed that you present a reasoned discussion - I would just
think method 2 is nuts and would decline to be launched that way.

John Galloway

Andy wrote:
In the more than 30 years I have been involved in gliding/soaring I
have had my wing run many times, have run other pilot’s wings, and
have taught novices to run wings for ground and aerotow launches.
At a recent national contest I saw a wing running technique that I had
never seen before. I was so concerned about the way my wing was being
handled that I stopped the launch. I was later told that the method
being used was not only common place but safer than the method I am
used to using.

As PIC, I presume it is exclusively your choice.

The two methods are as follows:

Method 1 – Runner stands outboard of wing tip facing in the direction
of launch and holding the wing tip trailing edge with the hand nearest
the glider.

Method 2 – Runner stands close behind the wing just inboard of the
wing tip and holds the trailing edge of the wing with both hands.

Not a problem on a high wing (much) like a SGS 2-33, but wouldn't some
gliders require a stance like that used in pushing a wheel barrow?
(I've been told not to run with wheelbarrows or scissors.)

Method 3 - Runner lifts glider over head and heaves it upward into the
nearest thermal.

Advantage of method 3 is no tow or winch is needed. Invite Hercules or
Atlas to your next glider launch.

On Jul 10, 3:27*pm, Andy wrote:
In the more than 30 years I have been involved in gliding/soaring I
have had my wing run many times, have run other pilot’s wings, and
have taught novices to run wings for ground and aerotow launches.
At a recent national contest I saw a wing running technique that I had
never seen before. *I was so concerned about the way my wing was being
handled that I stopped the launch. *I was later told that the method
being used was not only common place but safer than the method I am
used to using.

The two methods are as follows:

Method 1 – Runner stands outboard of wing tip facing in the direction
of launch and holding the wing tip trailing edge with the hand nearest
the glider.

Method 2 – Runner stands close behind the wing just inboard of the
wing tip and holds the trailing edge of the wing with both hands.

Possible advantages and disadvantages of each method

For Method 1:

– * * Wing runner has one arm free to swing and should be able to run
faster than a person holding a wing with both hands.
– * * In the event of a tail wind launch the wing runner can start
slightly ahead of the wing (Note that “ahead of” does not mean “in
front of”. The wing runner in this case is still outboard of the tip)
– * * If wing runner falls he will not obstruct the wing.

Against Method 1:

– * * None known

For Method 2 (My interpretation of what I was told by those advocating
this method):

– * * Use of two hands makes it possible to hold a heavy wing that could
not be held up by one hand alone.
– * * Launch is safer because the runner is not in front of the wing.

Against Method 2 (My opinion):

– * * Wing runner can fall on the wing at the start of the launch risking
personal injury and potentially causing the glider to ground loop.
– * * A person holding onto something with 2 hands cannot run as fast as
someone with one arm free.
– * * If the glider is so badly out of balance that 2 hands are needed to
support the wing the launch should not be started.

What wing running technique is used where you fly and, if it is method
2, can you please explain the advantages over method 1?

Andy

Hold up a heavy wing??? The wing runner is supposed to balance the
wing so there would be no weight hold up if they're doing it right.
There is no reason a runner in method 1 should be in front of the
wing.

I would only add that the pilot should hold neutral aileron so he's
not fighting the runner.

On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 14:27:16 -0700, Andy wrote:


What wing running technique is used where you fly and, if it is method
2, can you please explain the advantages over method 1?

I have never seen method 2 used. It should go without saying that I was
taught method 1 and have used it on heavy gliders up to and including an
ASH-25.

I agree with John Galloway that the weight of the wing should be reason
for aborting the launch rather than using two hands and would add another
reason for not launching as well as a heavy (out of balance) wing: that
is a cross-wind strong enough to make the wing that heavy is probably in
excess of the glider's cross-wind launch limit.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

16 is being assisted by method 2 and in this case one hand is on top
of the wing and the other underneath it. *I don't see how that helps
with the heavy wing but that is reason I was given for the method.

Andy

Method 3. Pick up the wing and slosh the water through the baffles
until there is NO weight. The pilot should centralize the controls so
not as to fight the wingrunner by the way. Hold the back of the
winglet with the inside hand. Applying no pressure get ready to really
run like hell. Too many wing runners think we're launching KA6s at sea
level, not massively over-watered gliders at high altitudes, hot
temperatures and all too often downwind.

Method 2 might make sense if the glider has an extreme amount of
dihedral. I haven't run that particular variant of discus 2, is the
wingtip too high? It's the onlyl excuse I can see.

Too many contest launches end up with scraped wingtips. I know there
were some experiments with ATVs that didn't work out. Maybe it's time
for droppable pogo sticks or similar.

John Cochrane

On 7/10/2010 4:27 PM, Andy wrote:
In the more than 30 years I have been involved in gliding/soaring I
have had my wing run many times, have run other pilot’s wings, and
have taught novices to run wings for ground and aerotow launches.
At a recent national contest I saw a wing running technique that I had
never seen before. I was so concerned about the way my wing was being
handled that I stopped the launch. I was later told that the method
being used was not only common place but safer than the method I am
used to using.

The two methods are as follows:

Method 1 – Runner stands outboard of wing tip facing in the direction
of launch and holding the wing tip trailing edge with the hand nearest
the glider.

Method 2 – Runner stands close behind the wing just inboard of the
wing tip and holds the trailing edge of the wing with both hands.

Possible advantages and disadvantages of each method

For Method 1:

– Wing runner has one arm free to swing and should be able to run
faster than a person holding a wing with both hands.
– In the event of a tail wind launch the wing runner can start
slightly ahead of the wing (Note that “ahead of” does not mean “in
front of”. The wing runner in this case is still outboard of the tip)
– If wing runner falls he will not obstruct the wing.

Against Method 1:

– None known

For Method 2 (My interpretation of what I was told by those advocating
this method):

– Use of two hands makes it possible to hold a heavy wing that could
not be held up by one hand alone.
– Launch is safer because the runner is not in front of the wing.

Against Method 2 (My opinion):

– Wing runner can fall on the wing at the start of the launch risking
personal injury and potentially causing the glider to ground loop.
– A person holding onto something with 2 hands cannot run as fast as
someone with one arm free.
– If the glider is so badly out of balance that 2 hands are needed to
support the wing the launch should not be started.


What wing running technique is used where you fly and, if it is method
2, can you please explain the advantages over method 1?

Andy

How can the wing runner signal take up slack and launch if he doesn't
have a free hand? That's just as important as holding the wings level.

--
Mike Schumann

On Jul 10, 4:34*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote:
On 7/10/2010 4:27 PM, Andy wrote:





In the more than 30 years I have been involved in gliding/soaring I
have had my wing run many times, have run other pilot’s wings, and
have taught novices to run wings for ground and aerotow launches.
At a recent national contest I saw a wing running technique that I had
never seen before. *I was so concerned about the way my wing was being
handled that I stopped the launch. *I was later told that the method
being used was not only common place but safer than the method I am
used to using.

The two methods are as follows:

Method 1 – Runner stands outboard of wing tip facing in the direction
of launch and holding the wing tip trailing edge with the hand nearest
the glider.

Method 2 – Runner stands close behind the wing just inboard of the
wing tip and holds the trailing edge of the wing with both hands.

Possible advantages and disadvantages of each method

For Method 1:

– * * * *Wing runner has one arm free to swing and should be able to run
faster than a person holding a wing with both hands.
– * * * *In the event of a tail wind launch the wing runner can start
slightly ahead of the wing (Note that “ahead of” does not mean “in
front of”. The wing runner in this case is still outboard of the tip)
– * * * *If wing runner falls he will not obstruct the wing.

Against Method 1:

– * * * *None known

For Method 2 (My interpretation of what I was told by those advocating
this method):

– * * * *Use of two hands makes it possible to hold a heavy wing that could
not be held up by one hand alone.
– * * * *Launch is safer because the runner is not in front of the wing.

Against Method 2 (My opinion):

– * * * *Wing runner can fall on the wing at the start of the launch risking
personal injury and potentially causing the glider to ground loop.
– * * * *A person holding onto something with 2 hands cannot run as fast as
someone with one arm free.
– * * * *If the glider is so badly out of balance that 2 hands are needed to
support the wing the launch should not be started.

What wing running technique is used where you fly and, if it is method
2, can you please explain the advantages over method 1?

Andy


Even if it were a good idea to hold up a heavy wing Method 2 would be
a terrible way to do it - the mechanics are all wrong. Someone may
have been concerned with a wing runner grasping the tip and holding it
back rather than letting it slip from his/her hands as the glider
accelerates, but the best idea is to train in Method 1 properly.

The big disadvantages I see with Method 2 a 1) the runner has very
little room to absorb a slingshot start if the towplane surges forward
and, 2) any misstep will put the runner's face on top of the wing
trailing edge with the expected bad outcome.

The best technique I know is with the wing runner next to the wing
lightly grasping the trailing edge of the tip applying as little
pressure as possible.

9B

On Jul 10, 4:34*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote:


How can the wing runner signal take up slack and launch if he doesn't
have a free hand? *That's just as important as holding the wings level.


For US contest launches it is common for the signaler to be a separate
person from the wing runner.

Andy

On 7/10/2010 5:45 PM, John Cochrane wrote:

Too many contest launches end up with scraped wingtips. I know there
were some experiments with ATVs that didn't work out. Maybe it's time
for droppable pogo sticks or similar.

John Cochrane

Cannot help but recall from the long ago, that the Fournier RF-4 self
launch had one main, one tailwheel and two wing tip out-riggers which
looked like curved 24 inch long 1/4 inch diameter rods with a roller
skate wheel at the end. They couldn't take much force, and evidently
didn't need to....

Brian W