FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community

There has been a lot of talk over the past several months about FLARM
and PowerFLARM coming to the US. Unfortunately, there has been not
enough information about these systems to support an informed
discussion.

John Cochrane and I both flew with Classic FLARM units in Hungary this
summer at the WGC and found FLARM to be fantastic. We decided that we
wanted to do something to move the discussion along so we embarked on
getting the best information we could and organizing it in one place
on the web. Quickly, we asked Dave Nadler for his help and he joined
in. Read more about our thoughts at www.GliderPilot.org/FlarmOurView.

Finally, we contacted Urs Rothacher, the developer of FLARM and
PowerFLARM, and Lee Kuhlke, the US PowerFLARM distributor to provide
key technical data and to review for accuracy the content of the
site. The three of us have worked for the past month to create what
we believe is an accurate and unbiased representation of the FLARM
technology and new PowerFLARM system designed for the US market.

The information we have compiled can be viewed at www.GliderPilot.org/FLARM.
We invite you to review the information there and join in a new
discussion. We believe the FLARM technology and PowerFLARM system
represent a tremendous capability for collision avoidance and that
with adoption in the US, especially in contest flying, will save
lives.

We invite your comments,
Bill Elliott (WE), John Cochrane (BB), and Dave Nadler (YO)

On Sep 14, 8:09*am, WE wrote:
There has been a lot of talk over the past several months about FLARM
and PowerFLARM coming to the US. *Unfortunately, there has been not
enough information about these systems to support an informed
discussion.

John Cochrane and I both flew with Classic FLARM units in Hungary this
summer at the WGC and found FLARM to be fantastic. *We decided that we
wanted to do something to move the discussion along so we embarked on
getting the best information we could and organizing it in one place
on the web. *Quickly, we asked Dave Nadler for his help and he joined
in. *Read more about our thoughts atwww.GliderPilot.org/FlarmOurView.

Finally, we contacted Urs Rothacher, the developer of FLARM and
PowerFLARM, and Lee Kuhlke, the US PowerFLARM distributor to provide
key technical data and to review for accuracy the content of the
site. *The three of us have worked for the past month to create what
we believe is an accurate and unbiased representation of the FLARM
technology and new PowerFLARM system designed for the US market.

The information we have compiled can be viewed atwww.GliderPilot.org/FLARM.
We invite you to review the information there and join in a new
discussion. *We believe the FLARM technology and PowerFLARM system
represent a tremendous capability for collision avoidance and that
with adoption in the US, especially in contest flying, will save
lives.

We invite your comments,
Bill Elliott (WE), John Cochrane (BB), and Dave Nadler (YO)

Thanks Bill (et, al).

Couple of problems on your web site... the Parowan video isn't
available on the page where it needs to be and the chart showing
"who's ordered" cannot be edited.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

On Sep 14, 8:09*am, WE wrote:
There has been a lot of talk over the past several months about FLARM
and PowerFLARM coming to the US. *Unfortunately, there has been not
enough information about these systems to support an informed
discussion.

John Cochrane and I both flew with Classic FLARM units in Hungary this
summer at the WGC and found FLARM to be fantastic. *We decided that we
wanted to do something to move the discussion along so we embarked on
getting the best information we could and organizing it in one place
on the web. *Quickly, we asked Dave Nadler for his help and he joined
in. *Read more about our thoughts atwww.GliderPilot.org/FlarmOurView.

Finally, we contacted Urs Rothacher, the developer of FLARM and
PowerFLARM, and Lee Kuhlke, the US PowerFLARM distributor to provide
key technical data and to review for accuracy the content of the
site. *The three of us have worked for the past month to create what
we believe is an accurate and unbiased representation of the FLARM
technology and new PowerFLARM system designed for the US market.

The information we have compiled can be viewed atwww.GliderPilot.org/FLARM.
We invite you to review the information there and join in a new
discussion. *We believe the FLARM technology and PowerFLARM system
represent a tremendous capability for collision avoidance and that
with adoption in the US, especially in contest flying, will save
lives.

We invite your comments,
Bill Elliott (WE), John Cochrane (BB), and Dave Nadler (YO)

Thanks Bill (et, al).

Couple of problems on your web site... the Parowan video isn't
available on the page where it needs to be and the chart showing
"who's ordered" cannot be edited.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

On Sep 14, 5:09*am, WE wrote:
There has been a lot of talk over the past several months about FLARM
and PowerFLARM coming to the US. *Unfortunately, there has been not
enough information about these systems to support an informed
discussion.

John Cochrane and I both flew with Classic FLARM units in Hungary this
summer at the WGC and found FLARM to be fantastic. *We decided that we
wanted to do something to move the discussion along so we embarked on
getting the best information we could and organizing it in one place
on the web. *Quickly, we asked Dave Nadler for his help and he joined
in. *Read more about our thoughts atwww.GliderPilot.org/FlarmOurView.

Finally, we contacted Urs Rothacher, the developer of FLARM and
PowerFLARM, and Lee Kuhlke, the US PowerFLARM distributor to provide
key technical data and to review for accuracy the content of the
site. *The three of us have worked for the past month to create what
we believe is an accurate and unbiased representation of the FLARM
technology and new PowerFLARM system designed for the US market.

The information we have compiled can be viewed atwww.GliderPilot.org/FLARM.
We invite you to review the information there and join in a new
discussion. *We believe the FLARM technology and PowerFLARM system
represent a tremendous capability for collision avoidance and that
with adoption in the US, especially in contest flying, will save
lives.

We invite your comments,
Bill Elliott (WE), John Cochrane (BB), and Dave Nadler (YO)

I tried to follow your links, but there was nothing there.

On Sep 14, 8:33*am, Blake Seese wrote:
On Sep 14, 5:09*am, WE wrote:





There has been a lot of talk over the past several months about FLARM
and PowerFLARM coming to the US. *Unfortunately, there has been not
enough information about these systems to support an informed
discussion.

John Cochrane and I both flew with Classic FLARM units in Hungary this
summer at the WGC and found FLARM to be fantastic. *We decided that we
wanted to do something to move the discussion along so we embarked on
getting the best information we could and organizing it in one place
on the web. *Quickly, we asked Dave Nadler for his help and he joined
in. *Read more about our thoughts atwww.GliderPilot.org/FlarmOurView.

Finally, we contacted Urs Rothacher, the developer of FLARM and
PowerFLARM, and Lee Kuhlke, the US PowerFLARM distributor to provide
key technical data and to review for accuracy the content of the
site. *The three of us have worked for the past month to create what
we believe is an accurate and unbiased representation of the FLARM
technology and new PowerFLARM system designed for the US market.

The information we have compiled can be viewed atwww.GliderPilot.org/FLARM.
We invite you to review the information there and join in a new
discussion. *We believe the FLARM technology and PowerFLARM system
represent a tremendous capability for collision avoidance and that
with adoption in the US, especially in contest flying, will save
lives.

We invite your comments,
Bill Elliott (WE), John Cochrane (BB), and Dave Nadler (YO)

I tried to follow your links, but there was nothing there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have flown with Flarm for the past 4 years at Bitterwasser, Namibia
(Africa) -
it is an excellent collision avoidance system - I fully support the
adoption of
Flarm and Power Flarm in the US - especially in competition where it
should
be mandatory for all competitors - it definitely will save lives -
Ralph "Woody" Woodward

I tried to follow your links, but there was nothing there.

http://www.GliderPilot.org/FLARM

Sigh. (again)

Darryl

I found the correct links here.

http://www.gliderpilot.org/FLARM

http://www.gliderpilot.org/FlarmOurView


John

On Sep 14, 8:50*am, Mike the Strike wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:52*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:

I tried to follow your links, but there was nothing there.

http://www.GliderPilot.org/FLARM

Sigh. (again)

Darryl

From a recent discussion at our ASA racing group, I think you are now
preaching to the choir on the benefits of FLARM.

The problem we have is that pilots in the USA are not going to have
the availability of an inexpensive unit, such as those used in Europe,
Australia and Africa. *PowerFLARM appears to be a wonderful unit with
many more benefits and I can see one in my future, but the cost is
three to four times that of the regular unit and will have a much
harder time reaching the same levels of adoption as in other
countries. *I predict that there will be a lot of push-back if the
rules committee attempts to mandate the use of a $2,000 unit in
contests.

Mike

(It wasn't me "preaching", I assume Mike meant the OP but I'll reply
anyhow).

Where does "three to four times" come from?

The advertised price of a Flarm Classic unit in the UK looks like £495
(US$770) or £587 (US$913) with IGC recorder. Neither price including
VAT. (see http://www.lxavionics.co.uk/flarm.htm)

In Australia the advertised price of a miniOzFLarm black box is AU$769
plus likely a display like the Artronic for AU$239. That is a total of
AU$1008 (US$951). We could argue about the possibility of using this
with a PDA only display, but I think you really want the hardwired
display/controller in addition to a PDA. (see http://www.swiftavionics.com.au)

In Germany the advertised price of a Flarm Classic unit (with IGC
recorder) is EUR685 (US$891).
See http://shop.segelflugbedarf24.de/ind...and-ADS-B.html.

The introductory price for PowerFLARM in the USA was US$1495 (with
PCAS, 1090ES and IGC up to three diamonds). The USA list price
mentioned was $1695. I hear that the initial allocation at the
introductory price has sold out.... (maybe time to start asking for an
extension or bulk buy program etc.)

Am I missing something? I'm not disputing the new generation
PowerFLARM is more expensive than older Flarm units available
overseas, but I just want people to be careful making pricing
comparisons (and be clear what features like IGC recorders are in
different products - yes not everybody may want that feature, but lets
just be clear on any comparisons). BTW I've seen some people confuse
the pricing on a Flarm display to that of a full Flarm unit, so again
a good idea to be clear exactly what is in any price comparison.

Darryl

Hi Guys,

Very nicely done! Excellent! What a great resource.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde

"WE" wrote in message
...
There has been a lot of talk over the past several months about FLARM
and PowerFLARM coming to the US. Unfortunately, there has been not
enough information about these systems to support an informed
discussion.

John Cochrane and I both flew with Classic FLARM units in Hungary this
summer at the WGC and found FLARM to be fantastic. We decided that we
wanted to do something to move the discussion along so we embarked on
getting the best information we could and organizing it in one place
on the web. Quickly, we asked Dave Nadler for his help and he joined
in. Read more about our thoughts at www.GliderPilot.org/FlarmOurView.

Finally, we contacted Urs Rothacher, the developer of FLARM and
PowerFLARM, and Lee Kuhlke, the US PowerFLARM distributor to provide
key technical data and to review for accuracy the content of the
site. The three of us have worked for the past month to create what
we believe is an accurate and unbiased representation of the FLARM
technology and new PowerFLARM system designed for the US market.

The information we have compiled can be viewed at
www.GliderPilot.org/FLARM.
We invite you to review the information there and join in a new
discussion. We believe the FLARM technology and PowerFLARM system
represent a tremendous capability for collision avoidance and that
with adoption in the US, especially in contest flying, will save
lives.

We invite your comments,
Bill Elliott (WE), John Cochrane (BB), and Dave Nadler (YO)

On Sep 14, 11:50*am, Mike the Strike wrote:
*I predict that there will be a lot of push-back if the
rules committee attempts to mandate the use of a $2,000 unit in
contests.


One vendor has them listed for $1495 on the web site, and this is
listed as a regular price, not the special intro.

I hope mandates do not become necessary. I am quite enthusiastic
about bringing this technology to the US, I predict we'll see
widespread if not universal adoption in the FAI classes at $1500. All
the better if a less expensive version becomes available.

Possibly, this could be put in the hands of contest organizers, much
as ELT requirements are handled now. Some contests need this
technology rather more than others... in my experience pretty much any
contest of more than 50 gliders is going to cough up at least one
"Damn, that was too close!" story, the majority of which fortunately
involve no contact.

-Evan Ludeman / T8