US National Park Overflights

In the Letters section of the USA Soaring magazine Feb 2011, there was
a reference to a possible glider violation of the "2000' per/1 mile
rule for national parks." I had not heard of this.

Separate from regulation of for-hire sight-seeing flights (which I
understand have been the subject of discussion and regulation), does
anyone have any knowledge of a specific FAA regulation or ruling about
glider flights over US national parks?

Thanks,
- Frank

and More restrictions may be coming. Talk of a 17,999 ceiling on the
Grand Canyon.

http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/article...eleas ed.html

On 2-13-2011 17:01, Paul Cordell wrote:
and More restrictions may be coming. Talk of a 17,999 ceiling on the
Grand Canyon.

http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/article...eleas ed.html

NOISE REDUCTION from a glider? Screaming hawks and eagles are noisier!
People thought we were crying wolf about progressively losing flying
freedoms after 9/11. Looks like we may have been right after all....

On Feb 13, 7:24Â*am, V1 wrote:
In the Letters section of the USA Soaring magazine Feb 2011, there was
a reference to a possible glider violation of the "2000' per/1 mile
rule for national parks." I had not heard of this.

Separate from regulation of for-hire sight-seeing flights (which I
understand have been the subject of discussion and regulation), does
anyone have any knowledge of a specific FAA regulation or ruling about
glider flights over US national parks?

Thanks,
- Frank

Not a Rule.. but a request..
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi...7/aim0704.html

"b. Pilots are requested to maintain a minimum altitude of 2,000 feet
above the surface of the following: National Parks, Monuments,
Seashores, Lakeshores, Recreation Areas and Scenic Riverways
administered by the National Park Service, National Wildlife Refuges,
Big Game Refuges, Game Ranges and Wildlife Ranges administered by the
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and Wilderness and Primitive areas
administered by the U.S. Forest Service.

NOTE-
FAA Advisory Circular AC 91-36, Visual Flight Rules (VFR) Flight Near
Noise-Sensitive Areas, defines the surface of a national park area
(including parks, forests, primitive areas, wilderness areas,
recreational areas, national seashores, national monuments, national
lakeshores, and national wildlife refuge and range areas) as: the
highest terrain within 2,000 feet laterally of the route of flight, or
the upper-most rim of a canyon or valley."

They are annotated on the charts with a solid blue line with dots to
the inside of the area and will be labled with a "Name National
Wildlife Refuge".

T

On 2/13/2011 1:32 PM, Scott wrote:
On 2-13-2011 17:01, Paul Cordell wrote:
and More restrictions may be coming. Talk of a 17,999 ceiling on
the Grand Canyon.


http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/article...eleas ed.html




NOISE REDUCTION from a glider? Screaming hawks and eagles are
noisier! People thought we were
crying wolf about progressively losing flying freedoms after 9/11.
Looks like we may have been right
after all....


It's hard to see the heavy hand of Homeland Security and the ghost of
9/11 in an airspace change driven by noise concerns. No need to invoke
9/11 to understand why the FAA, tour operators, and even AOPA might not
think too much about gliders crossing the airspace! It doesn't happen
very often - I know, I've tried for about 5 years, flying out Parowan,
and raising the "flight-free" zones to 18,000' would definitely make it
harder.
_
Eric Greenwell






--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

We are there on a fairly regular basis. Top of lift this day last
fall was 12.5K We don't need a higher fence.

http://tinypic.com/r/98alci/7

Ive made the crossing both ways 2 times a year for the last several years
and have had to go around it (via vegas and page) a few times when I
havent been able to get above 12k for a glide from the middle to either
side. And I am just one of a bunch of pilots that try each year. After all
it is the biggest hole in the world It was and is designed for noise
abatement so maybe we could/should get an Exemption Letter for gliders.


At 05:57 14 February 2011, Paul Cordell wrote:
We are there on a fairly regular basis. Top of lift this day last
fall was 12.5K We don't need a higher fence.

http://tinypic.com/r/98alci/7

On Feb 15, 4:46*pm, Cliff Hilty
wrote:
Ive made the crossing both ways 2 times a year for the last several years
and have had to go around it (via vegas and page) a few times when I
havent been able to get above 12k for a glide from the middle to either
side. And I am just one of a bunch of pilots that try each year. After all
it is the biggest hole in the world It was and is designed for noise
abatement so maybe we could/should get an Exemption Letter for gliders.

At 05:57 14 February 2011, Paul Cordell wrote:

We are there on a fairly regular basis. * Top of lift this day last
fall was 12.5K * We don't need a higher fence.

http://tinypic.com/r/98alci/7

Has anyone ever had to land in the canyon? Suddenly can't get back to
either side.... That would be a story I would love to hear (assuming
no one was hurt). I'm not talking about Evil Knievel either...

WD

No , Although on either end (east or West) there are airports that are some
where in between the top of the rim and the colorado river, landing
"down" in the canyon would be next to impossible without major damage or
a water landing in to a pretty fast current and slim chance of surviving
the incident. I ALWAYS have enough altitude to make the rims and at least
a rough field landing. And most of the time am pushing the 17999' so that
I don't decend into the 14 K ceiling of the current SFR area. And yes
there are corridors below that but until now you had to use a paper chart
to navigate through them!

CH Ventus B



At 22:28 15 February 2011, Whiskey Delta wrote:
On Feb 15, 4:46=A0pm, Cliff Hilty
wrote:
Ive made the crossing both ways 2 times a year for the last several
years
and have had to go around it (via vegas and page) a few times when I
havent been able to get above 12k for a glide from the middle to
either
side. And I am just one of a bunch of pilots that try each year. After
al=
l
it is the biggest hole in the world It was and is designed for
noise
abatement so maybe we could/should get an Exemption Letter for
gliders.

At 05:57 14 February 2011, Paul Cordell wrote:

We are there on a fairly regular basis. =A0 Top of lift this day last
fall was 12.5K =A0 We don't need a higher fence.

http://tinypic.com/r/98alci/7

Has anyone ever had to land in the canyon? Suddenly can't get back to
either side.... That would be a story I would love to hear (assuming
no one was hurt). I'm not talking about Evil Knievel either...

WD

On Feb 16, 11:28*am, Whiskey Delta wrote:
Has anyone ever had to land in the canyon? *Suddenly can't get back to
either side.... *That would be a story I would love to hear (assuming
no one was hurt). *I'm not talking about Evil Knievel either...

If there's not too much sink about you could fly a heck of a long way
downriver from just below the rim, and given all the rapid there must
be a pretty good overall drop in the river too.