Navions

I currently have a 150hp Piper TriPacer that I've upgraded pretty well but
I'm beginning to feel the need for a larger airplane. Not necessarily a
huge step up in speed and range but more in room and stability. It's hard
to fit two larger fellows into a TriPacer even if the weight isn't a
problem.

I've looked at Cherokee 180s, Cessna 182s / 210s and am becoming more and
more interested in Navions. The popular culture says that they are well
(0ver) built and very stable and allegely easy to fly. I'm hoping someone
could help me with ...

How do they perform on the E185 Continental
Are the hydraulics hard to maintain or troublesome
Are there any major AD gotchas that I should be careful of
Would they be harder to fly than, say, a Piper Arrow in terms of being a
complex aircraft?
Are they certified in Normal and Utility catagories (ie, can they be spun
intentionally?)

I have my commercial and instrument ratings and about 500 hrs TT.

Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

Rod Wagoner
Tucson, AZ

For more than you will ever want to know about NAvions, go to:
http://rip.tzo.com/index.html

I've looked at Cherokee 180s, Cessna 182s / 210s and am becoming more and
more interested in Navions. The popular culture says that they are well
(0ver) built and very stable and allegely easy to fly.
True, IMHO.

How do they perform on the E185 Continental
I have this engine. Performs well, but the IO470, 520, 540, and 550 are
the engines of choice. The E series engines use a Hartzell prop subject
to a repetitive AD. No NAvion is a speed demon, although there are those
who specialize in extracting some very repectable airspeeds from such a
large and roomy plane.

Are the hydraulics hard to maintain or troublesome
Not at all. As an A&P, I find the NAvion hydraulics easier to deal with
than electrical/mechanical systems. Very straightforward, very simple.

Are there any major AD gotchas that I should be careful of
Any 50 year old (+) airplane has AD's, but there are very few repetitive
ones on the NAvion, and those that remain are by and large very simple
inspections. Get the AD list from the site above. Most AD's should have
been complied with years ago.

Would they be harder to fly than, say, a Piper Arrow in terms of being a
complex aircraft?
No. The only real difference is turning on the hydraulics when needed,
and turning it off when done. Some NAvions still have their original
adjustable props (not constant speed), but they're getting rare.

Are they certified in Normal and Utility catagories (ie, can they be spun
intentionally?)
They are certified in both the Normal and Utility catagories.
"Aerobatics" beyond those required for a Commercial exam are not
approved, including spins.

I have my commercial and instrument ratings and about 500 hrs TT.
Congratulations! The NAvion might be the best next plane for you. Join
the NAvion discussion group at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/navion_aircraft_mail/

Rip


Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

Rod Wagoner
Tucson, AZ

"rip" wrote in message . com...
I have this engine. Performs well, but the IO470, 520, 540, and 550 are
the engines of choice. The E series engines use a Hartzell prop subject
to a repetitive AD.

There is a Hartzell prop available without the AD, but you are right, your
choices are greater with the flanged crank rather than the splined one.

No NAvion is a speed demon, although there are those
who specialize in extracting some very repectable airspeeds from such a
large and roomy plane.

Sort of like souping up a Volkswagon. You can put all these mods on, but
she's still a volkswagon :-)


Are the hydraulics hard to maintain or troublesome
Not at all. As an A&P, I find the NAvion hydraulics easier to deal with
than electrical/mechanical systems. Very straightforward, very simple.

The Navion gear is simplicity itself compared with most other retracts.

Are they certified in Normal and Utility catagories (ie, can they be spun
intentionally?)
They are certified in both the Normal and Utility catagories.
"Aerobatics" beyond those required for a Commercial exam are not
approved, including spins.

Note that if you have a larger engine (from the 260 HP up or so), your
utility category load area is very small. While the extra HP and other mods
up the gross weight, they don't open open up the utility envelope. I can't
really fly in the utility envelope with anything other than myself and a small
fuel load.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:28:16 -0500, "Ron Natalie"
wrote:


"rip" wrote in message . com...
I have this engine. Performs well, but the IO470, 520, 540, and 550 are
the engines of choice. The E series engines use a Hartzell prop subject
to a repetitive AD.

There is a Hartzell prop available without the AD, but you are right, your
choices are greater with the flanged crank rather than the splined one.

No NAvion is a speed demon, although there are those
who specialize in extracting some very repectable airspeeds from such a
large and roomy plane.

Sort of like souping up a Volkswagon. You can put all these mods on, but
she's still a volkswagon :-)

Yah, but a very roomy and comfortable VW, unlike its ground bound
counterpart. :-))

snip

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Tri Pacer Pilot" wrote in message thlink.net...
I currently have a 150hp Piper TriPacer that I've upgraded pretty well but
I'm beginning to feel the need for a larger airplane. Not necessarily a
huge step up in speed and range but more in room and stability. It's hard
to fit two larger fellows into a TriPacer even if the weight isn't a
problem.

I've looked at Cherokee 180s, Cessna 182s / 210s and am becoming more and
more interested in Navions. The popular culture says that they are well
(0ver) built and very stable and allegely easy to fly. I'm hoping someone
could help me with ...

How do they perform on the E185 Continental
Are the hydraulics hard to maintain or troublesome
Are there any major AD gotchas that I should be careful of
Would they be harder to fly than, say, a Piper Arrow in terms of being a
complex aircraft?
Are they certified in Normal and Utility catagories (ie, can they be spun
intentionally?)

I have my commercial and instrument ratings and about 500 hrs TT.

Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

Rod Wagoner
Tucson, AZ

I had most of my time in Cherokees and Arrows before purchasing my
first Navion. It was a very easy transition. It only took a couple
of hours to feel comfortable in the plane. It flys a lot like a
Cherokee. I would recommend the biggest engine you can afford,
especially if you fly out west in the mountains.

Ron French
Navion N4969K

"Ron French" wrote in message om...

I had most of my time in Cherokees and Arrows before purchasing my
first Navion. It was a very easy transition.

Yep... I landed the Navion the first time from the right seat and
it was really sweet. The only thing odd about flying the navion over
a Cessna or Piper is that there are a lot more knobs and levers to
fiddle with on takeoff and landing. The airplane flies and lands
very benignly. It taxis like a pig.

How does a pig taxi?

Ron Natalie wrote:

The airplane flies and lands
very benignly. It taxis like a pig.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:33:20 -0500, Ray Andraka
wrote:

How does a pig taxi?

About like a Navion!


Ron Natalie wrote:

The airplane flies and lands
very benignly. It taxis like a pig.

"Ray Andraka" wrote in message ...
How does a pig taxi?

Slowly and with a lot of throttle :-)

Ron, are you sure your brakes aren't dragging? Mine taxis quite
sprightly, though coincidentally I call my plane "The Pig".

Rip

Ron Natalie wrote:
"Ray Andraka" wrote in message ...

How does a pig taxi?


Slowly and with a lot of throttle :-)