Barry Schiff "Back to Basics"

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html

On Jun 25, 12:19*pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html

Visit Egypt www.touregyptclub.net

On Jun 25, 12:19*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html

Very nice article!

TA

On Jun 26, 8:02*pm, Frank Paynter wrote:
On Jun 25, 12:19*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html

Very nice article!

TA

Yes all good stuff for us but he's likely to be considered a heretic
by the average AOPA member. Did you see the reaction in the AOPA
magazine letters to his article on turning back after engine failure?
I suppose I should have written in support of that article since I
have taught several airplane pilots how to make engine loss turn backs
with minimum altitude loss.

Andy

On Jun 29, 3:50*pm, Andy wrote:
On Jun 26, 8:02*pm, Frank Paynter wrote:

On Jun 25, 12:19*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html

Very nice article!

TA

Yes all good stuff for us but he's likely to be considered a heretic
by the average AOPA member. *Did you see the reaction in the AOPA
magazine letters to his article on turning back after engine failure?
I suppose I should have written in support of that article since I
have taught several airplane pilots how to make engine loss turn backs
with minimum altitude loss.

Andy

At an airshow glider display I was getting some static from a pilot
whose loud opinion was "real" pilots have throttles - the more the
better. I just said "$500 to fill your tanks" and he got "real"
quiet.

For a small but increasing minority of airplane pilots, their thoughts
are converging on the idea they will have to find more money for fuel
or learn to fly a glider.

Bill D

Listen to a bunch of throttle holders talking about flying; what they like
to discuss is systems -- never anything else.



At 15:48 01 July 2011, Bill D wrote:
On Jun 29, 3:50=A0pm, Andy wrote:
On Jun 26, 8:02=A0pm, Frank Paynter wrote:

On Jun 25, 12:19=A0am, Frank Whiteley wrote:

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html

Very nice article!

TA

Yes all good stuff for us but he's likely to be considered a heretic
by the average AOPA member. =A0Did you see the reaction in the AOPA
magazine letters to his article on turning back after engine failure?
I suppose I should have written in support of that article since I
have taught several airplane pilots how to make engine loss turn backs
with minimum altitude loss.

Andy

At an airshow glider display I was getting some static from a pilot
whose loud opinion was "real" pilots have throttles - the more the
better. I just said "$500 to fill your tanks" and he got "real"
quiet.

For a small but increasing minority of airplane pilots, their thoughts
are converging on the idea they will have to find more money for fuel
or learn to fly a glider.

Bill D

When I hear some pilots sneer at soaring (or Hang Gliding, or
ParaGliding or whatever), saying "I'd rather have an engine," I just
tell them that an engine is a handy thing to have- If you don't know
how to fly.

In article Bill D writes:

At an airshow glider display I was getting some static from a pilot
whose loud opinion was "real" pilots have throttles - the more the
better. I just said "$500 to fill your tanks" and he got "real"
quiet.

However, with a powered aircraft, I can fill the tanks for about $250,
and then head off for about 600 - 700 nautical miles. When there, another
$250 or so, and I can return home.

The glider spends some money on the tow to get started, then at the end
of the 600 trip out, is likely looking for some friend of family to tow
the trailer out to get him. If the route is as direct in the ground
vehicle, he goes 600 * 1.15 miles. Guessing 16 mpg, he goes through about
43 gal. of gasoline each way, and at $3.80/gal costs about $328 in fuel
for that return.


The cost difference may be that the powered aircraft much more frequently
completes the trip to somewhere else (and returns), while most glider flights
are fairly local.

Alan

On 7/2/2011 8:41 PM, Alan wrote:
In Bill writes:

At an airshow glider display I was getting some static from a pilot
whose loud opinion was "real" pilots have throttles - the more the
better. I just said "$500 to fill your tanks" and he got "real"
quiet.

However, with a powered aircraft, I can fill the tanks for about $250,
and then head off for about 600 - 700 nautical miles. When there, another
$250 or so, and I can return home.

The glider spends some money on the tow to get started, then at the end
of the 600 trip out, is likely looking for some friend of family to tow
the trailer out to get him. If the route is as direct in the ground
vehicle, he goes 600 * 1.15 miles. Guessing 16 mpg, he goes through about
43 gal. of gasoline each way, and at $3.80/gal costs about $328 in fuel
for that return.


The cost difference may be that the powered aircraft much more frequently
completes the trip to somewhere else (and returns), while most glider flights
are fairly local.

Your comparison seems to miss the point just as much as that "real" pilot.

You are buying distance, the glider pilot is buying flying. Cost
comparisons are meaningless in that case. The glider pilot bought an
exceptional amount of flying that is not measured in just miles, but
great satisfaction. The power pilot likely did not have an exceptional
flying experience, but it still cost him a bundle.

The costs of owning and operating an aircraft are much more complex than
the fuel burned in an airplane and the retrieve cost for the glider, so
the numbers used in your example are not even a good measure of the cost
per year.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

On Jul 2, 9:41*pm, (Alan) wrote:
In article Bill D writes:

At an airshow glider display I was getting some static from a pilot
whose loud opinion was "real" pilots have throttles - the more the
better. *I just said "$500 to fill your tanks" and he got "real"
quiet.

* However, with a powered aircraft, I can fill the tanks for about $250,
and then head off for about 600 - 700 nautical miles. *When there, another
$250 or so, and I can return home.

* The glider spends some money on the tow to get started, then at the end
of the 600 trip out, is likely looking for some friend of family to tow
the trailer out to get him. *If the route is as direct in the ground
vehicle, he goes 600 * 1.15 miles. *Guessing 16 mpg, he goes through about
43 gal. *of gasoline each way, and at $3.80/gal costs about $328 in fuel
for that return.

* The cost difference may be that the powered aircraft much more frequently
completes the trip to somewhere else (and returns), while most glider flights
are fairly local.

* * * * Alan

I agree with Eric. Using the airplane thought process to analyze
costs just doesn't work with gliders. Airplanes are about miles and
speed which assumes you actually need miles and speed. The problem is
that assumption is often wrong but is nonetheless used to justify
airplane ownership. (Been there, done that.)

Light airplanes can be justified by the need to visit one or more
remote cities not served by airlines in one day then get home to sleep
in your own bed. However, for most owners, those trips are rare.
Most trips can be done by other means which are cheaper, faster or
where speed isn't that important.

It may be true that most glider flights are local but that's by
choice, not necessity. Gliders CAN make long, exciting XC flights but
even that isn't the justification. Pure fun and the challenge of
flight is.

I suggest people be brutally honest with themselves and decide whether
their desire to fly is motivated by a real need for frequent back
country travel or just as a fun activity. If the former, there's no
doubt they need an airplane. If the latter, there are lots of sport
aviation pursuits but soaring should be near the top of their list.