Halon Fire Extinguisher?

I just got my first issue of "Light Plane Maintenance" magazine.
I am really enjoying it. In their free book "40 Top Maintenance Tips"
(p27), they say "get the Halon extinguisher while they are still legal."

As I recall, there has been some issue that inhaling Halon can be pretty
bad for people's health. Why is a Halon fire extinguisher a great idea.

Also, this might sound dumb, but don't C02 extringuisher work by
depriving fires of 0xygen? It seems to me that in a small aircraft
cabin, one might also end up depriving the pilot and crew of oxygen as
well. Perhaps, one can survive long enough to put out the fire and then
open the air vents?!

Has anyone out there experienced an in-flight cabin fire that they put
out with an extinguisher? What was it like?

-Sami
N2057M, Piper Turbo Arrow III (being overhauled)

In article ,
"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:



As I recall, there has been some issue that inhaling Halon can be pretty
bad for people's health. Why is a Halon fire extinguisher a great idea.

Halon itself is non-toxic. When exposed to heat (as in a fire) some
byproducts are toxic. Also, a high concentration of Halon while not
toxic is not a survivable atmosphere. That being said, fire and fire
products are not survivable/toxic...and they also cause a lot of pain.
Use the extinguisher to put the fire out, it's the lesser of the evils.
Halon is a wonderful extinguishing agent in a confined space such as a
cockpit and it does no harm to electronics, avionics, etc.

Also, this might sound dumb, but don't C02 extringuisher work by
depriving fires of 0xygen? It seems to me that in a small aircraft
cabin, one might also end up depriving the pilot and crew of oxygen as
well. Perhaps, one can survive long enough to put out the fire and then
open the air vents?!

Generally a handheld extinguisher doesn't contain enought CO2 to
incapacitate you before you can vent the cabin.

Has anyone out there experienced an in-flight cabin fire that they put
out with an extinguisher? What was it like?


No inflight cabin fires, but I worked Crash Rescue for 20 years.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:

As I recall, there has been some issue that inhaling Halon can be pretty
bad for people's health.

Inhaling the contents of just about any fire extinguisher can be pretty bad for your
health.

Why is a Halon fire extinguisher a great idea.

It doesn't damage mechanical, electrical, or electronic components of the aircraft.
This is why they also used to be common in computer rooms.

Also, this might sound dumb, but don't C02 extringuisher work by
depriving fires of 0xygen? It seems to me that in a small aircraft
cabin, one might also end up depriving the pilot and crew of oxygen as
well. Perhaps, one can survive long enough to put out the fire and then
open the air vents?!

Perhaps so. The manufacturers are billing these as good substitutes for Halon in the
usual environments in which Halon is used on the ground.

Check the newsgroups archives for postings by Ron Natalie on this topic.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

In article ,
O. Sami Saydjari wrote:
As I recall, there has been some issue that inhaling Halon can be pretty
bad for people's health. Why is a Halon fire extinguisher a great idea.

Halon is a great alternative to water in indoor environments because
it's non-directional. You can't 'flood' a room with a conventional dry
fire extinguisher, but you CAN flood a room with halon. It's heavier
than air so it fills up the room and smothers the fire. That's the
reason I've been told it's dangerous to inhale -- it will sit in your
lungs.

I only deployed a dry extinguisher inside once (small grease fire) and
it was a god awful mess for only a few short bursts.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

"Ben Jackson" wrote in message
news:Ttcjc.25047$YP5.1970503@attbi_s02...
In article ,
O. Sami Saydjari wrote:
As I recall, there has been some issue that inhaling Halon can be pretty
bad for people's health. Why is a Halon fire extinguisher a great idea.

Halon is a great alternative to water in indoor environments because
it's non-directional. You can't 'flood' a room with a conventional dry
fire extinguisher, but you CAN flood a room with halon.

Sort of true, but sprinklers are quite capable of flooding a room with
water. The problem is water can cause as much or more damage than the fire
to a lot of expensive things. Then again, for people, being wet is
preferable to being burned.

It's heavier
than air so it fills up the room and smothers the fire. That's the
reason I've been told it's dangerous to inhale -- it will sit in your
lungs.

Yes and no. It is heavier than air, but it does disperse rapidly providing
a relatively constant concentration of Halon in a closed space. At "normal"
concentration levels, it's not hazardous. A properly sized Halon system
will provide a concentration of 6% to 7%. Three to 5% is all that's needed
for it to work. At those levels, there is more than enough oxygen to
breathe without any ill effects (ref: Boyle's Law). The only time there is
a potential problem is when the fire gets really hot before the Halon is
introduced. The high temps can break down the Halon creating some toxic
byproducts. I'd say it's much less of a danger than the smoke from the
fire.

Halon doesn't "smother" a fire. It breaks the chemical reaction. Think of
it as an anti-catalyst. Since it doesn't displace all the oxygen, people
can still breathe. I've been in a computer room that had a Halon system
when it was triggered. When it does, you're supposed to keep the doors
closed so that it can do its magic. The primary risks are 1) Noise - high
pressure gas venting thru little nozzles makes a horribly loud screeching
sound, 2) Limited short-term visibility - that rapidly expanding gas causes
a condensation cloud to form for a few seconds and people trying to move
quickly run into things, and 3) Debris flying everywhere - dirt and other
lightweight items pose a definite eye hazard.

I only deployed a dry extinguisher inside once (small grease fire) and
it was a god awful mess for only a few short bursts.

Done that too. A good whiff that stuff will leave you gagging for hours.
I'll take Halon any day.

Gerry

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:20:32 -0500, "O. Sami Saydjari"
wrote:

I just got my first issue of "Light Plane Maintenance" magazine.
I am really enjoying it. In their free book "40 Top Maintenance Tips"
(p27), they say "get the Halon extinguisher while they are still legal."

As I recall, there has been some issue that inhaling Halon can be pretty
bad for people's health. Why is a Halon fire extinguisher a great idea.

Also, this might sound dumb, but don't C02 extringuisher work by
depriving fires of 0xygen? It seems to me that in a small aircraft
cabin, one might also end up depriving the pilot and crew of oxygen as
well. Perhaps, one can survive long enough to put out the fire and then
open the air vents?!

Has anyone out there experienced an in-flight cabin fire that they put
out with an extinguisher? What was it like?

-Sami
N2057M, Piper Turbo Arrow III (being overhauled)

Halon is a banned substance. It is an ozone depleting chemical.

Stealth Pilot wrote:

Halon is a banned substance. It is an ozone depleting chemical.

In the Americas, only the manufacture is banned. There's a small industry recycling
the stuff from old systems, and extinguishers are still available and legal to own.
From what I've read, possession is banned in the EU.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

Thank you George.

Neither Halon nor CO2 work primarily by depriving the fire of oxygen. Halon works by
interfering with the chemical reaction of burning. It is effective at concentrations far below
that necessary to stop free burning by lack of oxygen.

CO2 and even water for that matter gets most of it's fire fighting affect from COOLING.
CO2 is frosty cold coming out of the extinguisher and does a pretty good job of it. Any
firefighter who's worked a reasonable size fire knows it the water absorbing the heat and
turning to steam that knocks down the fire.

Remember there are four things you have to have to have a fi

1. Fuel
2. Oxygen
3. Heat
4. Battalion Chief

Take away any one and you can't have a fire.

O. Sami Saydjari wrote:
I just got my first issue of "Light Plane Maintenance" magazine.
I am really enjoying it. In their free book "40 Top Maintenance Tips"
(p27), they say "get the Halon extinguisher while they are still
legal."

Halon has been banned years ago because it is one of the worst chemicals
wrt. destroying the ozone layer.

As I recall, there has been some issue that inhaling Halon can be
pretty bad for people's health.

Not really. Halon is non-toxic.

Why is a Halon fire extinguisher a
great idea.

Because is it is non-toxic, very effective, non-corrosive, non-damaging,
doesn't leave a residue, and half a dozen other reasons.

Also, this might sound dumb, but don't C02 extringuisher work by
depriving fires of 0xygen?

Plus cooling the fire below the ingnition temperature.

It seems to me that in a small aircraft
cabin, one might also end up depriving the pilot and crew of oxygen as
well.

Only a concern for prolonged exposure.

Perhaps, one can survive long enough to put out the fire and
then open the air vents?!

Normal ventilation would probably even be enough.

jue

"Jürgen Exner" wrote:

Halon has been banned years ago because it is one of the worst chemicals
wrt. destroying the ozone layer.

In the Americas, only the manufacture is banned. There's a small industry recycling
the stuff from old systems, and extinguishers are still available and legal to own.
From what I've read, possession is banned in the EU.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.