how to get started as AC broker?

(Looking for serious replies please...)

I am a ATP pilot with a general aviation background, and am growing
tired of the insecurity of the (no matter where you work) "pro pilot
job." Pagers, on call, no real vacations, etc, etc.

Another friend of mine, also an ATP, feels the same way. However we
both want to remain connected to aviation and are thinking of opening
a small aircraft sales/brokerage business, focusing on basic airplanes
such as Cessna 172/182, Piper Warrior, Beech Bonanza, etc.

Basically planes that already sell themselves....

No, we are not going to put Van Bortel or Jack Prewitt out of
business, I realize that.

Nor was Rome built in a day. We would like to get started slow, then
maybe over a 5 year time frame, have an established business running.

Not that it matters, but we both sold used cars in college and are
both BA's in Business.

This is a serious question, no flamers please. Van Bortel, Jack
Prewitt, Clay Lacy (all respected brokers) got started SOMEHOW, and I
refuse to believe that with the right mindset, business practices, and
a good plan, the playing field cannot let another newbie come into the
business.

Comments, input, etc wanted

Fly Safe

we both want to remain connected to aviation and are thinking of opening
a small aircraft sales/brokerage business, focusing on basic airplanes
such as Cessna 172/182, Piper Warrior, Beech Bonanza, etc.
[...]
I refuse to believe that with the right mindset, business practices, and
a good plan, the playing field cannot let another newbie come into the
business.

Find a niche. Here's one I'd suggest - focus on putting people together who would make a good partnership in buying a plane, and then sell them the plane. There are many people who are beyond the FBO, not ready to buy a plane, and the other easy
option is a flying club. It's a good option but has its limits (such as performance and availability), and the next step towards ownership would be a partnership with (say) four or five people. However such a partnership is difficult to find, set
up, and manage, and there are "bad partner" issues that increase the more partners there are. If you made it your mission (and marketed yourself that way, and were good) there's a big opportunity for getting people one step closer to the freedom of
their own airplane.

I'd say that to make this work, you should have connections with A&Ps, and with consellors (of the type that could help determine who would make a good match with whom, and who could be called upon when a partnershp has rough edges). Also, as you
make more connections and create more partnerships, there will be more options for fixing one that goes sour, and a possible "upgrade" route for individual partners.

Where are you located?

Jose
--
for Email, make the obvious change in the address
Note - Since the OP is crossposted to r.a.misc and r.a.owning (which I don't follow) as well as r.a.piloting (which I do), I posted the reply to all three groups. For me to see replies, include r.a.piloting in the list.

Bill wrote:

(Looking for serious replies please...)

I am a ATP pilot with a general aviation background, and am growing
tired of the insecurity of the (no matter where you work) "pro pilot
job." Pagers, on call, no real vacations, etc, etc.

Another friend of mine, also an ATP, feels the same way. However we
both want to remain connected to aviation and are thinking of opening
a small aircraft sales/brokerage business, focusing on basic airplanes
such as Cessna 172/182, Piper Warrior, Beech Bonanza, etc.

Basically planes that already sell themselves....

No, we are not going to put Van Bortel or Jack Prewitt out of
business, I realize that.

Nor was Rome built in a day. We would like to get started slow, then
maybe over a 5 year time frame, have an established business running.

Not that it matters, but we both sold used cars in college and are
both BA's in Business.

This is a serious question, no flamers please. Van Bortel, Jack
Prewitt, Clay Lacy (all respected brokers) got started SOMEHOW, and I
refuse to believe that with the right mindset, business practices, and
a good plan, the playing field cannot let another newbie come into the
business.

Comments, input, etc wanted

What will you offer that they don't? That is the key determinant of
your likely success or failure. It is hard for "just another" business
to join a market. You need an angle such as Wal-Mart with their low
prices spurred to a large degree by their business model of vendor owned
inventory, for example.


Matt

Jose wrote:
we both want to remain connected to aviation and are thinking of opening
a small aircraft sales/brokerage business, focusing on basic airplanes
such as Cessna 172/182, Piper Warrior, Beech Bonanza, etc.
[...]
I refuse to believe that with the right mindset, business practices, and
a good plan, the playing field cannot let another newbie come into the
business.


Find a niche.




Exactly. Piper Cubs, Cessna 180/182/185/205/206. Stick with these and
people will beat down your door. They are also recession proof. Take
in the occasional cherokee on trade but only when the economy is good.
These things have a knack of sticking around the lot. I bought my plane
from Stancil in Placerville, CA. I have been watching his site for the
last 6+ years. The turnover is fantastic, although he doesn't deal in
Cubs. He's got a 1976 Warrior that he can't get rid of, now the price
is lowered to $38.5. Same for a cherokee 6, although that one has 8.50
mains, and a 73 Arrow. http://www.skywagons.com/shop-mall.html

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Bill wrote:

(Looking for serious replies please...)

I am a ATP pilot with a general aviation background, and am growing
tired of the insecurity of the (no matter where you work) "pro pilot
job." Pagers, on call, no real vacations, etc, etc.

Another friend of mine, also an ATP, feels the same way. However we
both want to remain connected to aviation and are thinking of opening
a small aircraft sales/brokerage business, focusing on basic airplanes
such as Cessna 172/182, Piper Warrior, Beech Bonanza, etc.

Basically planes that already sell themselves....

No, we are not going to put Van Bortel or Jack Prewitt out of
business, I realize that.

Nor was Rome built in a day. We would like to get started slow, then
maybe over a 5 year time frame, have an established business running.

Not that it matters, but we both sold used cars in college and are
both BA's in Business.

This is a serious question, no flamers please. Van Bortel, Jack
Prewitt, Clay Lacy (all respected brokers) got started SOMEHOW, and I
refuse to believe that with the right mindset, business practices, and
a good plan, the playing field cannot let another newbie come into the
business.

Comments, input, etc wanted

What will you offer that they don't? That is the key determinant of your
likely success or failure. It is hard for "just another" business to join
a market. You need an angle such as Wal-Mart with their low prices
spurred to a large degree by their business model of vendor owned
inventory, for example.


Matt

Not true. If you work hard and take care of your customers any company can
do good. I would say the other most important thing is being properly
funded.
If you have to keep running to the bank the bank will make all the money.
JMHO

aluckyguess wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Bill wrote:


(Looking for serious replies please...)

I am a ATP pilot with a general aviation background, and am growing
tired of the insecurity of the (no matter where you work) "pro pilot
job." Pagers, on call, no real vacations, etc, etc.

Another friend of mine, also an ATP, feels the same way. However we
both want to remain connected to aviation and are thinking of opening
a small aircraft sales/brokerage business, focusing on basic airplanes
such as Cessna 172/182, Piper Warrior, Beech Bonanza, etc.

Basically planes that already sell themselves....

No, we are not going to put Van Bortel or Jack Prewitt out of
business, I realize that.

Nor was Rome built in a day. We would like to get started slow, then
maybe over a 5 year time frame, have an established business running.

Not that it matters, but we both sold used cars in college and are
both BA's in Business.

This is a serious question, no flamers please. Van Bortel, Jack
Prewitt, Clay Lacy (all respected brokers) got started SOMEHOW, and I
refuse to believe that with the right mindset, business practices, and
a good plan, the playing field cannot let another newbie come into the
business.

Comments, input, etc wanted

What will you offer that they don't? That is the key determinant of your
likely success or failure. It is hard for "just another" business to join
a market. You need an angle such as Wal-Mart with their low prices
spurred to a large degree by their business model of vendor owned
inventory, for example.


Matt


Not true. If you work hard and take care of your customers any company can
do good. I would say the other most important thing is being properly
funded.
If you have to keep running to the bank the bank will make all the money.
JMHO

Suit yourself, but if all of the other companies are working hard and
taking care of their customers, then you doing the same as them won't
likely make you a big success as folks will always go with the company
with a long track record all else being equal.


Matt

Buy an airplane and then sell it. Simple as that.
Oh, try and sell it for more than you paid for it. Not so simple after
all.
But really, that's all you have to do. Call the expired TAP ads and
see if they are still interested in selling. Offer them 20K less than
you think you can sell it for. Remember, airplanes are easy to buy,
and hard to sell.

(Bill) wrote in message om...
(Looking for serious replies please...)

I am a ATP pilot with a general aviation background, and am growing
tired of the insecurity of the (no matter where you work) "pro pilot
job." Pagers, on call, no real vacations, etc, etc.

Another friend of mine, also an ATP, feels the same way. However we
both want to remain connected to aviation and are thinking of opening
a small aircraft sales/brokerage business, focusing on basic airplanes
such as Cessna 172/182, Piper Warrior, Beech Bonanza, etc.

Basically planes that already sell themselves....

No, we are not going to put Van Bortel or Jack Prewitt out of
business, I realize that.

Nor was Rome built in a day. We would like to get started slow, then
maybe over a 5 year time frame, have an established business running.

Not that it matters, but we both sold used cars in college and are
both BA's in Business.

This is a serious question, no flamers please. Van Bortel, Jack
Prewitt, Clay Lacy (all respected brokers) got started SOMEHOW, and I
refuse to believe that with the right mindset, business practices, and
a good plan, the playing field cannot let another newbie come into the
business.

Comments, input, etc wanted

Fly Safe

Doug wrote:
Remember, airplanes are easy to buy, and hard to sell.

We've been just the opposite...

Guess we're those pesky picky tire kickers...

Drove over 10k rental car miles in 1.5 years looking at planes in just 2
states (Florida & Ohio). Bought 3 planes in that span of time, 2 within
40 miles of home...

Buy an airplane and then sell it. Simple as that.

Nope. Sell the airplane and then buy it. That way you're never stuck holding the bag.

Jose
--
for Email, make the obvious change in the address

Are you insane?

If you make 10% on each plane, and then have to eat a loss because of a bad
buy or something, it can wipe out a lot of other deals. Seriously, buy a
172 for 45. Spend 2 on it, and sell it for 53. Now, find out you need 10k
in repairs to get your money out of the fourth one - and it starts to look
lame. Now, try to make 15%, and listen to both sides squeel like pigs.

Also, Van Bortel distributes/sells a lot of new Cessna's, so he has
relationships with lots of FBO's and schools that way. Those relationships
multiply.

Add in the fact that you are now despised and mistrusted by most of the
population because you are now a salesman. You can look in the archives here
about how most folks think about brokers and sales people. If you want to
know real frustration, go try to buy a plane from someone who is NOT a sales
person. I have heard sales people tell a few whoppers, but plane owners
take the cake by far. Still, its the sales people that get hated.

If you are not sufficiently discouraged, then know that the world does not
need more brokers that are not full service. Have a maintenance crew and an
interior crew that can fix your planes before and AFTER you sell them.
Standing behind your planes with a warranty can't happen if you can't fix
them.

The only other thing I can think of is opening a consignment lot may be the
way to go. Start an FBO where the ramp and hangars are dirt cheap, and let
people put the planes there for sale for a fee.