Landing a Mooney

We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

Jon Kraus ) wrote:

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

When I transitioned from a Skyhawk to a Bonanza V35 last March, I had a
similar problem. The site picture was a bit different. It just took me
a few rough landings and a bit of practice to smooth things out.

It will come to you, just like it did when you made your first smooth
landing in the Skyhawk as a student pilot. Remember when you once
thought the same thing about that aircraft?

--
Peter

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 01:42:19 GMT, Jon Kraus wrote:

common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Jon,

Not sure about the sight picture in the Mooney, but my transition to the
Sundowner was a significant adjustment.

I found that on final, the nose pitches DOWN when deploying flaps. In the
Cessna's the nose pitches up. This means you see A LOT of ground on final.
It felt to me initially, that I was diving toward the ground, when in
reality, it was just the nose pitching down. To somewhat counter the pitch
down, I roll the trim back just a tad on downwind.

Even in normal cruise flight, I see a lot more ground then I did in a
Cessna.

Back to landings, if your Mooney is like my Sundowner, ground effect second
to speed is your friend or foe. Too much speed, and you float. Too
little, and you bottom out like a rock. You nail your approach speed, and
ground effect will cushion your landing.

I found by going to the practice area and climbing to 3000 feet and
practicing descents at my approach speed helped me tremendously.

Hope you are enjoying the joys of ownership!

Allen

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
snip
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has

if you're referencing MPH, then your speeds look right... if KNOTS, then
you're 10k fast...
Greg

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my
10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that
this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad
that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not
been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on
downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign
to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as
I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

Hi Jon;

I've flown the Mk21 and even the old Mite, but it's been a few years :-)

Mooney's are VERY clean and have a tendency to stay put in the flare
until they bleed off energy (airspeed). It's not a big deal really, but
it pays you to fly a stabilized approach in these airplanes and nail the
flare airspeed right on the nose. Their slippery enough that they can
get a bit away from you airspeed wise almost before you can catch it,
putting you in the flare a bit hotter than you want to be. If this
happens, just hold it there if you have the room and let it bleed into
the landing, or take it around if you have any doubt at all about the
available runway. Ground effect is prevalent in a Mooney because of the
short gear height. It can be tricky, but it's nothing to worry about if
you're getting a good checkout.
One thing to remember in Mooney's; actually any airplane for that
matter, but especially something as slippery in the air as a Mooney;
stay ahead of the airplane. You don't have the drag of that 172 to bail
you out of an airspeed pickup on approach. Start flying the airplane
where it will be ten seconds from now and you'll have a fair handle on
things with a Mooney.
One more thing; stop for a second on line up before takeoff and look
directly ahead of you over the glare. Remember that view. That's what
you'll be seeing at the instant of touchdown!
Good luck;
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
for email; take out the trash

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 01:42:19 GMT, Jon Kraus wrote:

I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

If these speeds are in KIAS (and not MPH), you are coming over the
threshold of the runway much too fast. But check your POH though as the
data I have may not apply to your aircraft.

My book shows that an M20J will stall with gear down and full flaps at 54
KIAS. 1.3*54 = 70 KIAS. While 80 KIAS may be OK when you first turn
final, if you cross the threshold at that speed, you will float a long
ways. You need to get slowed down before thinking about landing. For a
short field landing, even slower speeds work real well.

A Mooney landing is conventional, so long as you are at the right speed.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

In article ,
Jon Kraus wrote:

We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.



Remember to KEEP THAT NOSE OFF! Too many Mooney drivers land too fast,
touch nosewheel first and wheelbarrow down the runway.

Proper flare technique is critical on a Mooney.

I don't mean to be a dutch uncle...but pahleeeeze! You're wimping out. Don't
give up! Buck up and battle it out. Just do it ... time and time again
until maybe it hurts but you'll do it..I know it, you know it and we all
know it.


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

Most of my time is high-wing but I've flown various
low-wing planes - SR20, Mooney, Grob, a couple of hours
in Cherokees. They all have something in common compared
to high-wing planes - they feel like they land flatter.
Don't try to full-stall them in a really nose-high
attitude. I managed to hit the tie-down ring in the SR20
doing that once. Of course when I say "flatter" I don't
mean "flat" - there is still a fair amount of nose-up
and the mains touch first but it is a different feeling
and sight picture than the Cessna.

Of course the other comments are all true too, especially
speed control.

John

Jon Kraus wrote:
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

I think you're most of the way there, in that you've correctly identified
the major issue. Once you've got the speed control mastered (which is
critical, as everyone has told you) it *is* all about sight picture and
knowing where the wheels are in relation to the runway. Mooneys are
particularly unflattering of bad landings because of the nature of the gear,
but no harder to land well.

Julian Scarfe