Avoiding gliders

Frode Berg wrote:

What are good ways to avoid the gliders?
Do they have some sort of good/excellent lookout techniques, or are they
just flying around having a good time?

Of course we are having a good time flying around, after all, that's the
whole point of soaring!

More to the point: Second, no, glider pilots don't have a special
lookout technique, other than being paranoid and knowing how poorly
visible we are. I'm pretty sure the glider you passed has seen you long
before. (Of course you shouldn't bet your life at it. Besides, gliders
have the right of way.) The only thechnique that works is look, look,
look. Glider pilot students learn very early to forget about cockpit
instruments, to fly by horizon and butt and to permanently look out,
look out, look out. That's the whole trick.

But first and most important: Try to avoid regions where dense glider
traffic is to be expected. Flying through southeastern Germany at FL55
when there is some thermal activity is a very bad idea. This is one of
the most densly populated areas, gliderwise, and FL55 is more or less
the most active altitude band. Your best bet is to climb into airspace
C, but you don't always want to do so. Try to think like a glider pilot.
Try to know the most popular glider areas and avoid them. Try to
recognize thermals. Be aware that if you see a glider, the probability
is high that there are others in the vicinity you don't see, one glider
seldom flies alone. If you see a glider gaggle, make a big tour around
it. There are always more gliders in the air than you will see.

Stefan

A question - Can glider pilots hear powered aircraft in the area, or
does the slipstream mask the sound?
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.


"Stefan" "stefan"@mus. INVALID .ch wrote in message
...
Frode Berg wrote:

What are good ways to avoid the gliders?
Do they have some sort of good/excellent lookout techniques, or
are they
just flying around having a good time?

Of course we are having a good time flying around, after all, that's
the
whole point of soaring!

More to the point: Second, no, glider pilots don't have a special
lookout technique, other than being paranoid and knowing how poorly
visible we are. I'm pretty sure the glider you passed has seen you
long
before. (Of course you shouldn't bet your life at it. Besides,
gliders
have the right of way.) The only thechnique that works is look,
look,
look. Glider pilot students learn very early to forget about cockpit
instruments, to fly by horizon and butt and to permanently look out,
look out, look out. That's the whole trick.

But first and most important: Try to avoid regions where dense
glider
traffic is to be expected. Flying through southeastern Germany at
FL55
when there is some thermal activity is a very bad idea. This is one
of
the most densly populated areas, gliderwise, and FL55 is more or
less
the most active altitude band. Your best bet is to climb into
airspace
C, but you don't always want to do so. Try to think like a glider
pilot.
Try to know the most popular glider areas and avoid them. Try to
recognize thermals. Be aware that if you see a glider, the
probability
is high that there are others in the vicinity you don't see, one
glider
seldom flies alone. If you see a glider gaggle, make a big tour
around
it. There are always more gliders in the air than you will see.

Stefan

You can most certainly hear other aircraft. You can hear just about
everything. My first glider ride was at El Mirage, CA. From 10,000 feet
up I could hear the air horn on a Santa Fe locomotive. I actually heard
two F-105 Weary Weasels heading back to George AFB. It's a whole
different world in a glider.

Dave Reinhart


Gene Seibel wrote:

A question - Can glider pilots hear powered aircraft in the area, or
does the slipstream mask the sound?
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

"Stefan" "stefan"@mus. INVALID .ch wrote in message
...
Frode Berg wrote:

What are good ways to avoid the gliders?
Do they have some sort of good/excellent lookout techniques, or
are they
just flying around having a good time?

Of course we are having a good time flying around, after all, that's
the
whole point of soaring!

More to the point: Second, no, glider pilots don't have a special
lookout technique, other than being paranoid and knowing how poorly
visible we are. I'm pretty sure the glider you passed has seen you
long
before. (Of course you shouldn't bet your life at it. Besides,
gliders
have the right of way.) The only thechnique that works is look,
look,
look. Glider pilot students learn very early to forget about cockpit
instruments, to fly by horizon and butt and to permanently look out,
look out, look out. That's the whole trick.

But first and most important: Try to avoid regions where dense
glider
traffic is to be expected. Flying through southeastern Germany at
FL55
when there is some thermal activity is a very bad idea. This is one
of
the most densly populated areas, gliderwise, and FL55 is more or
less
the most active altitude band. Your best bet is to climb into
airspace
C, but you don't always want to do so. Try to think like a glider
pilot.
Try to know the most popular glider areas and avoid them. Try to
recognize thermals. Be aware that if you see a glider, the
probability
is high that there are others in the vicinity you don't see, one
glider
seldom flies alone. If you see a glider gaggle, make a big tour
around
it. There are always more gliders in the air than you will see.

Stefan

I went up for an instrument practice session at my home base of Cambridge
(UK) today. The weather made for two closely related problems: it was bumpy
as hell, and there were gliders everywhere. At one point the Cambridge
controller warned of 17 gliders in sight from the tower. My safety pilot
earned his seat.

So the solution? Wear foggles -- it relieves the stress. :-)

Julian Scarfe

The best way is probably to get your glider rating. Then you will know
where gliders are likely to be.

Mike
MU-2


"Frode Berg" wrote in message
...
Hi!

I recently did a trip from Oslo to Prague in a 180 Arrow, and on the way
back home through southeastern Germany, I noticed a dense amount of
gliders
all over the place.
When they are banking, theyre quite easy to see, but flying straight at
you,
or away almost impossible, at least when in front of white ckouds.

ATC didn't seem to know about them either. I noticed though that after
asking ATC about the max altitude for the gliders, after saying that i saw
auite a lot of them in the area, he started giving pilots info of "there
seems to be glider activity".

What are good ways to avoid the gliders?
Do they have some sort of good/excellent lookout techniques, or are they
just flying around having a good time?
I saw one to my left at approx same altitude as me (FL055) at one point,
and
he was climbing, and banking and I was using quite some time looking out
for
him as I passed him, so I was missing out a bit in front. Not sure if he'd
seen me.

Anyway, just looking for some "see and avoid" tips for these unpowered
planes.

Frode

dhb wrote:

Where?
In the US cloud flying would be highly unlikely.

The original poster asked about southestern Germany. Cloud flying is
allowed in many European countries, Germany included. Besides, it's fun.

Stefan

dhb wrote:

Where?
In the US cloud flying would be highly unlikely.

Central New Jersey, just north of Solberg. I haven't seen it for a while,
but the glider operation in that area moved some years ago.

George Patterson
The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The
pessimist is afraid that he's correct.
James Branch Cavel

Stefan wrote:
dhb wrote:

Where?
In the US cloud flying would be highly unlikely.


The original poster asked about southestern Germany. Cloud flying is
allowed in many European countries, Germany included. Besides, it's fun.

You have to file a flightplan in Germany if you want to fly in clouds. Or
did that change?

Dieter Kleinschmidt wrote:

You have to file a flightplan in Germany if you want to fly in clouds.

Theoretically, yes. Practically, everybody knows that this is not
feasible. Just ask ATCfor a clearance, and your request will be
understood as an airborne flight plan. Whether you get a clearance to
enter cloud or not depends on the actual traffic situation and the mood
of the controller. (Controllers that are glider pilots themselves tend
to be more cooperativ than others.)

For those who don't know German airspace: Roughly spoken, between 2500
ft AGL and FL 100 airspace is E, above it's C. So the controller can
easily keep a portion of it free of motorised IFR traffic.

Stefan

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
In the US cloud flying would be highly unlikely.

Central New Jersey, just north of Solberg. I haven't seen it for a while,
but the glider operation in that area moved some years ago.

I used to fly in that area including a few times at Solberg. Very, very few
gliders flown there have anything beyond a whiskey compass and a yaw string
for cloud flying. Though it is possible to cloud fly with such equipment, I
never heard a NJ glider pilot talk about it around the keg.

Having said that, I'm sure someone at sometime has done some glider cloud
flying in NJ. And there's no question that a building Tstorm is a great
source of lift.

But of course, power pilots avoid flying into building Tstorms.

And it is sometimes possible to climb up the side of a cumulous cloud.

I would still suggest that flying above cloud base is an effective way to
avoid glider activity here in the states.