Can I bill my airplane travel expenses to a client?

I have a PPL, no commercial. I travel for my consulting busines, which I
own. Can I bill my client some reasonable rate for travel expenses when I
use my plane? I am not using the plane to generate income, it is tangential
to my business, which happens to be technology litigation consulting.

The followup question is, if I can't bill the expense, would I be able to if
I got the simplest level of a commercial license?

Yes.

Mike
MU-2


"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:rRwWa.42484$o%2.21901@sccrnsc02...
I have a PPL, no commercial. I travel for my consulting busines, which I
own. Can I bill my client some reasonable rate for travel expenses when I
use my plane? I am not using the plane to generate income, it is
tangential
to my business, which happens to be technology litigation consulting.

The followup question is, if I can't bill the expense, would I be able to
if
I got the simplest level of a commercial license?

Your local FSDO is probably the best place to ask this question, but
applying the same logic that the FAA has recently applied to CAP pilots (who
are in a marginally similar situation, their "client" being the federal
government), I think they'd say that as a private pilot, you can be
reimbursed for your flying expenses, OR log the flight time, but not both.
In the FAA's twisted mind, free flight time amounts to compensation, which
is verboten for a private pilot. CAP pilots are reimbursed after-the-fact
for mission flying expenses, just as you're seeking, and that's how the FAA
ruled, at least where private pilots are concerned.

If nothing else, you should be able to deduct it from your taxes as a
business expense.


"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:rRwWa.42484$o%2.21901@sccrnsc02...
I have a PPL, no commercial. I travel for my consulting busines, which I
own. Can I bill my client some reasonable rate for travel expenses when I
use my plane? I am not using the plane to generate income, it is
tangential
to my business, which happens to be technology litigation consulting.

The followup question is, if I can't bill the expense, would I be able to
if
I got the simplest level of a commercial license?

Hi,

"Aloft" wrote:
Your local FSDO is probably the best place to ask this question, but
applying the same logic that the FAA has recently applied to CAP pilots
(who
are in a marginally similar situation, their "client" being the federal
government), I think they'd say that as a private pilot, you can be
reimbursed for your flying expenses, OR log the flight time, but not
both.
In the FAA's twisted mind, free flight time amounts to compensation,
which
is verboten for a private pilot. CAP pilots are reimbursed
after-the-fact
for mission flying expenses, just as you're seeking, and that's how the
FAA
ruled, at least where private pilots are concerned.

Uh... are you sure about all this? It makes no sense that log time and the
expense of flying are in any way associated. Beyond that, the FARs have
some information about being compensated, and make no mention of logging
flight time. The FARs state that a PP *can* be compensated for flight
expenses as long as the flight activity is unrelated to the work activity,
e.g. the flight is simply a means of transportation to the work. CAP is
not similar, in that the flight activity is directly related to the reason
for compensation; you wouldn't be flying if it weren't for the request to
do so, as opposed to being peripheral to the activity. This is more
similar to being a pilot for an aerial photographer. In this situation,
compensation to PPs is in violation of the FARs.

If nothing else, you should be able to deduct it from your taxes as a
business expense.

This can be done. In the US, the IRS has instructions for such deductions.

Neil

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 09:15:46 -0400, "Jack Wynn Jr"
wrote:

You absolutely cannot MAKE any money from it
unless your a commercial rated pilot. In other words, if the total cost of
flight A was $129.38 and your client wrote you a check for $129.38 then your
legal. But if he mistakenly wrote it for $129.39 then your illegal.
Unless you have a commercial cert.

That is absolutely NOT the case in the situation cited.

There are specific regulations allowing what the OP proposed.

For example:

======================
61.113 (b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in
command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:

(1) The flight is only incidental to that business or employment;
and
(2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for
compensation or hire.
=====================

Flying yourself to a business meeting, or sales calls, where the business
is essentially unrelated to aviation, is specifically allowed as a
situation in which you can be compensated as a pilot.



Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:rRwWa.42484$o%2.21901@sccrnsc02...
I have a PPL, no commercial. I travel for my consulting busines, which I
own. Can I bill my client some reasonable rate for travel expenses when I
use my plane? I am not using the plane to generate income, it is
tangential
to my business, which happens to be technology litigation consulting.


I believe the answer is yes, since travel is incidental. Just
like a car.

But to avoid any possibility of some over-zealous FAA wallah
making your life a misery over the 'compensation' issue, try
this. Bump up your hourly rate to cover incidental travel expenses,
don't bother to bill your client at all for travel, and then take the
standard IRS airplane mileage as a business deduction. Can't
find the link right now, but I believe it is presently $0.96/mile.

It doesn't hurt to fill the plane with computers/books & take a
few pictures to prove later (if necessary) that private airplane
transport made sound economic sense for this particular client.

--
Dr. Tony Cox
Citrus Controls Inc.
e-mail:
http://CitrusControls.com/

Michael 182 wrote:
I have a PPL, no commercial. I travel for my consulting busines, which I
own. Can I bill my client some reasonable rate for travel expenses when I
use my plane? I am not using the plane to generate income, it is tangential
to my business, which happens to be technology litigation consulting.

Michael,

Your best bet is probably to run this question by AOPA and your
accountant.

In contrast to some other responses on this thread, I don't think
the FAA cares (I'm assuming it's just you flying, and not you putting
your clients in the plane and flying them to another locale).
I think it's between you, the client and (if tax issues are
involved) possibly the IRS.

I think if you bill the client a rate commensurate with gov't
milage for driving, or with a commercial airline ticket purchased
on the same time scale, no one will look twice, neither your
client nor the IRS nor the FAA.

I think if your actual flight expenses are significantly higher
than driving or commercial flight, the client might object if you
bill them for the whole thing, but that's between you and the client.

The FAA cares deeply that private pilots not "hold forth" to the
public to provide transportation. Thus the rules that the pilot
can only be reimbursed for certain specified actual expenses such
as fuel and oil, or rental fees, and even then only a pro-rated
share with the pilot paying his part, and that even receiving
logged time can be construed as "compensation". And the flight
must meet other tests, such as you having reasons of your own
to travel to your destination, not going there simply to transport
others.

But if it's just you in the plane, I don't think the FAA cares
how you're funding your "flight addiction": working 9-to-5,
billing the client for reasonable transportation expenses,
inherited wealth, whatever.

The followup question is, if I can't bill the expense, would I be able to if
I got the simplest level of a commercial license?

The commercial license would change the issues if you are flying
others, but I don't think it's relevant if the question is you
traveling on business.

Good luck,
Sydney

On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 16:27:28 GMT, Sydney Hoeltzli wrote:

The commercial license would change the issues if you are flying
others, but I don't think it's relevant if the question is you
traveling on business.

hm. And if he goes for the commercial to have all the possible problems out
of the way (or because FAA demands a CPL for this situation), can he then
deduct the expenses for the training?

#m
--
http://www.usawatch.org/ http://www.alternet.org/
Don't like your neighbor? - https://tips.fbi.gov/

Bombing for peace is like ****ing for virginity.

Martin Hotze wrote:

hm. And if he goes for the commercial to have all the possible problems out
of the way (or because FAA demands a CPL for this situation), can he then
deduct the expenses for the training?

No. The education is not required for the job.

George Patterson
The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The
pessimist is afraid that he's correct.
James Branch Cavel

The followup question is, if I can't bill the expense, would I be able to if
I got the simplest level of a commercial license?

The commercial license would change the issues if you are flying
others,..


Not if its just the "simplest" commercial as he asked. Carrying others
ing:s country would also require an instrument rating.

Edward