T-34A

Texas Air Aces, T-34A out of Hooks Airport north of Houston, crashed
this morning (Tuesday). Both in aircraft deceased.

Flight (two A/C) had not started air combat maneuvers per media and
did not have a mid air????? if you can believe the media. Other A/C
retured to Hooks and landed safely.

Sone media talk on tonights news is that wing failed but nothing
official from TAA or FAA.

Other than deaths, aircraft type and organization have nothing else at
this time.

If/when more data is released, will post.

Big John

Evening news

Don Wiley, owner of Texas Air Aces, was pilot in bird. Passenger has
not been identified as next of kin have not been notified.

Ground witinesses say wing broke and came off (not mid air).

My condolences to the families.

Will track for any other data.


Big John



..



On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:12:20 -0600, Big John
wrote:

Texas Air Aces, T-34A out of Hooks Airport north of Houston, crashed
this morning (Tuesday). Both in aircraft deceased.

Flight (two A/C) had not started air combat maneuvers per media and
did not have a mid air????? if you can believe the media. Other A/C
retured to Hooks and landed safely.

Sone media talk on tonights news is that wing failed but nothing
official from TAA or FAA.

Other than deaths, aircraft type and organization have nothing else at
this time.

If/when more data is released, will post.

Big John

In article , Big John
wrote:

Ground witinesses say wing broke and came off (not mid air).

The big question will be: "Did it have the spar mod per the AD?"

21:00 Tuesday night TV news

Don Wiley pilot.

Ohio man second individual (said identified but didn' t give name).

One wing found a mile from wreckage (image on screen looks like about
3/5 of wing including tip). Supports structural failure in air as said
other aircraft landed with no damage.

Other mish mash one hears on TV following an accident.

Big John


On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:12:20 -0600, Big John
wrote:

Texas Air Aces, T-34A out of Hooks Airport north of Houston, crashed
this morning (Tuesday). Both in aircraft deceased.

Flight (two A/C) had not started air combat maneuvers per media and
did not have a mid air????? if you can believe the media. Other A/C
retured to Hooks and landed safely.

Sone media talk on tonights news is that wing failed but nothing
official from TAA or FAA.

Other than deaths, aircraft type and organization have nothing else at
this time.

If/when more data is released, will post.

Big John

According to the Houston Chronicle this morning, they reported that the
Air Aces PR material/website claimed the aircraft had the "baron" spars.
The chronicle does not specifically address wether it was a midair or a
wing failure, but also did not address any damage to the other bird if
it WAS a midair of somekind.

The Chronicle also indicated the accident aircraft was on leaseback
(well.. owned by someone other than Don).

www.chron.com (sorry.. i read it in print, not online).

Blue Skies Don.. Sorry I never got a change to meet you in person while
flyin around up at Hooks

Dave Staten, PPSEL, RN, EMT-Paramedic
KSPX (closed)/KEFD/KLVJ

EDR wrote:
In article , Big John
wrote:


Ground witinesses say wing broke and came off (not mid air).


The big question will be: "Did it have the spar mod per the AD?"

Bill Eisenhower was the name of the other pilot. He use to be a member of
the club that I am trustee for. Although I did not know the man personally,
many members have said that he was a good guy and a great pilot. He got
most of his ratings with our club. He was a commercial airline pilot.



"Big John" wrote in message
...
21:00 Tuesday night TV news

Don Wiley pilot.

Ohio man second individual (said identified but didn' t give name).

One wing found a mile from wreckage (image on screen looks like about
3/5 of wing including tip). Supports structural failure in air as said
other aircraft landed with no damage.

Other mish mash one hears on TV following an accident.

Big John


On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:12:20 -0600, Big John
wrote:

Texas Air Aces, T-34A out of Hooks Airport north of Houston, crashed
this morning (Tuesday). Both in aircraft deceased.

Flight (two A/C) had not started air combat maneuvers per media and
did not have a mid air????? if you can believe the media. Other A/C
retured to Hooks and landed safely.

Sone media talk on tonights news is that wing failed but nothing
official from TAA or FAA.

Other than deaths, aircraft type and organization have nothing else at
this time.

If/when more data is released, will post.

Big John

Kevin

Some more data.

Yesterday talk was that mission was "upset' training. I had my doubts
about that media report since was a flight of two ships. You don't
need two birds for upset training.

Today they are talking about simulated combat which takes two ships
and would track with what has been put out.

On front page there is a map of the area and the point of crash is
marked with a quote:

"One plane crashes after collision, killing two."

There is nothing in the 20 or so column inches on accident that talks
about a collision.

Data from morning Chronicle

Donald L Wyle 64 was the owner of Air Aces Inc
William Eisenhauer, Jr, 39, of Centerville, OH was second individual.
He had been a pilot for 15 years and worked for Airborne Express.

Retired corporate pilot on ground said, "Two planes were spiraling
around each other, like in mock combat

----clip----

"The whole wing came off," he said. "I just looked at it in
disbelief."

The wing that came off, fell about 1/2 mile from rest of wreckage.
..
It's a shame. Lots of people got to experience simulated combat type
flying that they never would have without this program.

My condolences to both families.

Big John


On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:04:48 -0500, "Kevin Chandler"
wrote:

Bill Eisenhower was the name of the other pilot. He use to be a member of
the club that I am trustee for. Although I did not know the man personally,
many members have said that he was a good guy and a great pilot. He got
most of his ratings with our club. He was a commercial airline pilot.



"Big John" wrote in message
.. .
21:00 Tuesday night TV news

Don Wiley pilot.

Ohio man second individual (said identified but didn' t give name).

One wing found a mile from wreckage (image on screen looks like about
3/5 of wing including tip). Supports structural failure in air as said
other aircraft landed with no damage.

Other mish mash one hears on TV following an accident.

Big John


On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:12:20 -0600, Big John
wrote:

Texas Air Aces, T-34A out of Hooks Airport north of Houston, crashed
this morning (Tuesday). Both in aircraft deceased.

Flight (two A/C) had not started air combat maneuvers per media and
did not have a mid air????? if you can believe the media. Other A/C
retured to Hooks and landed safely.

Sone media talk on tonights news is that wing failed but nothing
official from TAA or FAA.

Other than deaths, aircraft type and organization have nothing else at
this time.

If/when more data is released, will post.

Big John

---------------------- Forwarded Message: ---------------------
From: "T-34 Association, Inc."
To:
Subject: Texas T-34 Crash
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:36:04 -0600

Main stream news outlets in the Houston area, excerpted in previous
posting in this news group, could lead to a couple of misconceptions
regarding the circumstances of this accident.

1) we understand from informed and knowledgeable sources that the
accident was NOT the result of a mid air collision. Eyewitness
reports from a pilot on the ground and examination of both the
wreckage and the second T-34 give no credence to the theory that one
T-34 made contact with the other. These sources also indicate that
the wing separation appears to be very similar to the Sky Warriors
accident which was ultimately pinned on metal fatigue within the spar
assembly.

2) the airplane that crashed DID NOT have the "Baron spar"
modification. In fact, it appears that the airplane's spar had not
been inspected as required by the A.D. nor had any of the available
AMOCs been applied. This information was inaccurately stated in the
Aviation Safety Training company website.

As most readers will know, the A.D. (air worthiness directive)
significantly limited the hours and the flight envelope of every
T-34 aircraft until they had complied with the testing or
modification requirements of the A.D. These requirements were
designed to protect against another occurrence, such as this.

FAA and NTSB investigators will be trying to determine the cause of
the accident and whether or not the aircraft was being operated in
compliance with the A.D. If it was in compliance with either the
inspection /modification requirements (which does not appear to be
likely at this time), or the flight hour limitation and flight
envelope limitations, then the T-34 fleet can expect more action and
restrictions from the FAA.

We know that the results of the investigation will be of keen
interest to all T-34 owners and operators, so we will keep you
informed. In the mean time, we grieve for the loss of our fellow
T-34 Association member, and friend, Don Wylie, and his
passenger/student, William Eisenhauer Jr.

------------------------------------------------------



Big John wrote in message . ..
Kevin

Some more data.

Yesterday talk was that mission was "upset' training. I had my doubts
about that media report since was a flight of two ships. You don't
need two birds for upset training.

Today they are talking about simulated combat which takes two ships
and would track with what has been put out.

On front page there is a map of the area and the point of crash is
marked with a quote:

"One plane crashes after collision, killing two."

There is nothing in the 20 or so column inches on accident that talks
about a collision.

Data from morning Chronicle

Donald L Wyle 64 was the owner of Air Aces Inc
William Eisenhauer, Jr, 39, of Centerville, OH was second individual.
He had been a pilot for 15 years and worked for Airborne Express.

Retired corporate pilot on ground said, "Two planes were spiraling
around each other, like in mock combat

----clip----

"The whole wing came off," he said. "I just looked at it in
disbelief."

The wing that came off, fell about 1/2 mile from rest of wreckage.
.
It's a shame. Lots of people got to experience simulated combat type
flying that they never would have without this program.

My condolences to both families.

Big John


On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:04:48 -0500, "Kevin Chandler"
wrote:

Bill Eisenhower was the name of the other pilot. He use to be a member of
the club that I am trustee for. Although I did not know the man personally,
many members have said that he was a good guy and a great pilot. He got
most of his ratings with our club. He was a commercial airline pilot.



"Big John" wrote in message
.. .
21:00 Tuesday night TV news

Don Wiley pilot.

Ohio man second individual (said identified but didn' t give name).

One wing found a mile from wreckage (image on screen looks like about
3/5 of wing including tip). Supports structural failure in air as said
other aircraft landed with no damage.

Other mish mash one hears on TV following an accident.

Big John


On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:12:20 -0600, Big John
wrote:

Texas Air Aces, T-34A out of Hooks Airport north of Houston, crashed
this morning (Tuesday). Both in aircraft deceased.

Flight (two A/C) had not started air combat maneuvers per media and
did not have a mid air????? if you can believe the media. Other A/C
retured to Hooks and landed safely.

Sone media talk on tonights news is that wing failed but nothing
official from TAA or FAA.

Other than deaths, aircraft type and organization have nothing else at
this time.

If/when more data is released, will post.

Big John

Rich

Thanks for filling in the skeleton data I gleaned from the local.
paper (who I find so many times wrong).

Safe flyinjg

Big John


On 21 Nov 2003 07:58:52 -0800, (Rich Stowell)
wrote:

---------------------- Forwarded Message: ---------------------
From: "T-34 Association, Inc."
To:
Subject: Texas T-34 Crash
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:36:04 -0600

Main stream news outlets in the Houston area, excerpted in previous
posting in this news group, could lead to a couple of misconceptions
regarding the circumstances of this accident.

1) we understand from informed and knowledgeable sources that the
accident was NOT the result of a mid air collision. Eyewitness
reports from a pilot on the ground and examination of both the
wreckage and the second T-34 give no credence to the theory that one
T-34 made contact with the other. These sources also indicate that
the wing separation appears to be very similar to the Sky Warriors
accident which was ultimately pinned on metal fatigue within the spar
assembly.

2) the airplane that crashed DID NOT have the "Baron spar"
modification. In fact, it appears that the airplane's spar had not
been inspected as required by the A.D. nor had any of the available
AMOCs been applied. This information was inaccurately stated in the
Aviation Safety Training company website.

As most readers will know, the A.D. (air worthiness directive)
significantly limited the hours and the flight envelope of every
T-34 aircraft until they had complied with the testing or
modification requirements of the A.D. These requirements were
designed to protect against another occurrence, such as this.

FAA and NTSB investigators will be trying to determine the cause of
the accident and whether or not the aircraft was being operated in
compliance with the A.D. If it was in compliance with either the
inspection /modification requirements (which does not appear to be
likely at this time), or the flight hour limitation and flight
envelope limitations, then the T-34 fleet can expect more action and
restrictions from the FAA.

We know that the results of the investigation will be of keen
interest to all T-34 owners and operators, so we will keep you
informed. In the mean time, we grieve for the loss of our fellow
T-34 Association member, and friend, Don Wylie, and his
passenger/student, William Eisenhauer Jr.

------------------------------------------------------



Big John wrote in message . ..
Kevin

Some more data.

Yesterday talk was that mission was "upset' training. I had my doubts
about that media report since was a flight of two ships. You don't
need two birds for upset training.

Today they are talking about simulated combat which takes two ships
and would track with what has been put out.

On front page there is a map of the area and the point of crash is
marked with a quote:

"One plane crashes after collision, killing two."

There is nothing in the 20 or so column inches on accident that talks
about a collision.

Data from morning Chronicle

Donald L Wyle 64 was the owner of Air Aces Inc
William Eisenhauer, Jr, 39, of Centerville, OH was second individual.
He had been a pilot for 15 years and worked for Airborne Express.

Retired corporate pilot on ground said, "Two planes were spiraling
around each other, like in mock combat

----clip----

"The whole wing came off," he said. "I just looked at it in
disbelief."

The wing that came off, fell about 1/2 mile from rest of wreckage.
.
It's a shame. Lots of people got to experience simulated combat type
flying that they never would have without this program.

My condolences to both families.

Big John


On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:04:48 -0500, "Kevin Chandler"
wrote:

Bill Eisenhower was the name of the other pilot. He use to be a member of
the club that I am trustee for. Although I did not know the man personally,
many members have said that he was a good guy and a great pilot. He got
most of his ratings with our club. He was a commercial airline pilot.



"Big John" wrote in message
.. .
21:00 Tuesday night TV news

Don Wiley pilot.

Ohio man second individual (said identified but didn' t give name).

One wing found a mile from wreckage (image on screen looks like about
3/5 of wing including tip). Supports structural failure in air as said
other aircraft landed with no damage.

Other mish mash one hears on TV following an accident.

Big John


On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:12:20 -0600, Big John
wrote:

Texas Air Aces, T-34A out of Hooks Airport north of Houston, crashed
this morning (Tuesday). Both in aircraft deceased.

Flight (two A/C) had not started air combat maneuvers per media and
did not have a mid air????? if you can believe the media. Other A/C
retured to Hooks and landed safely.

Sone media talk on tonights news is that wing failed but nothing
official from TAA or FAA.

Other than deaths, aircraft type and organization have nothing else at
this time.

If/when more data is released, will post.

Big John

Thank you for some real data...

I know the Houston media (as is most mainstream media) is woefully
inadequate in accuracy.

I do find it troubling that the accident airplane may have been
non-compliant with the AD with regards to the wing spar.

Dave
KLVJ

Rich Stowell wrote:

---------------------- Forwarded Message: ---------------------
From: "T-34 Association, Inc."
To:
Subject: Texas T-34 Crash
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:36:04 -0600

Main stream news outlets in the Houston area, excerpted in previous
posting in this news group, could lead to a couple of misconceptions
regarding the circumstances of this accident.

1) we understand from informed and knowledgeable sources that the
accident was NOT the result of a mid air collision. Eyewitness
reports from a pilot on the ground and examination of both the
wreckage and the second T-34 give no credence to the theory that one
T-34 made contact with the other. These sources also indicate that
the wing separation appears to be very similar to the Sky Warriors
accident which was ultimately pinned on metal fatigue within the spar
assembly.

2) the airplane that crashed DID NOT have the "Baron spar"
modification. In fact, it appears that the airplane's spar had not
been inspected as required by the A.D. nor had any of the available
AMOCs been applied. This information was inaccurately stated in the
Aviation Safety Training company website.

As most readers will know, the A.D. (air worthiness directive)
significantly limited the hours and the flight envelope of every
T-34 aircraft until they had complied with the testing or
modification requirements of the A.D. These requirements were
designed to protect against another occurrence, such as this.

FAA and NTSB investigators will be trying to determine the cause of
the accident and whether or not the aircraft was being operated in
compliance with the A.D. If it was in compliance with either the
inspection /modification requirements (which does not appear to be
likely at this time), or the flight hour limitation and flight
envelope limitations, then the T-34 fleet can expect more action and
restrictions from the FAA.

We know that the results of the investigation will be of keen
interest to all T-34 owners and operators, so we will keep you
informed. In the mean time, we grieve for the loss of our fellow
T-34 Association member, and friend, Don Wylie, and his
passenger/student, William Eisenhauer Jr.

------------------------------------------------------



Big John wrote in message . ..

Kevin

Some more data.

Yesterday talk was that mission was "upset' training. I had my doubts
about that media report since was a flight of two ships. You don't
need two birds for upset training.

Today they are talking about simulated combat which takes two ships
and would track with what has been put out.

On front page there is a map of the area and the point of crash is
marked with a quote:

"One plane crashes after collision, killing two."

There is nothing in the 20 or so column inches on accident that talks
about a collision.

Data from morning Chronicle

Donald L Wyle 64 was the owner of Air Aces Inc
William Eisenhauer, Jr, 39, of Centerville, OH was second individual.
He had been a pilot for 15 years and worked for Airborne Express.

Retired corporate pilot on ground said, "Two planes were spiraling
around each other, like in mock combat

----clip----

"The whole wing came off," he said. "I just looked at it in
disbelief."

The wing that came off, fell about 1/2 mile from rest of wreckage.
.
It's a shame. Lots of people got to experience simulated combat type
flying that they never would have without this program.

My condolences to both families.

Big John


On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:04:48 -0500, "Kevin Chandler"
wrote:


Bill Eisenhower was the name of the other pilot. He use to be a member of
the club that I am trustee for. Although I did not know the man personally,
many members have said that he was a good guy and a great pilot. He got
most of his ratings with our club. He was a commercial airline pilot.



"Big John" wrote in message
...

21:00 Tuesday night TV news

Don Wiley pilot.

Ohio man second individual (said identified but didn' t give name).

One wing found a mile from wreckage (image on screen looks like about
3/5 of wing including tip). Supports structural failure in air as said
other aircraft landed with no damage.

Other mish mash one hears on TV following an accident.

Big John


On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:12:20 -0600, Big John
wrote:


Texas Air Aces, T-34A out of Hooks Airport north of Houston, crashed
this morning (Tuesday). Both in aircraft deceased.

Flight (two A/C) had not started air combat maneuvers per media and
did not have a mid air????? if you can believe the media. Other A/C
retured to Hooks and landed safely.

Sone media talk on tonights news is that wing failed but nothing
official from TAA or FAA.

Other than deaths, aircraft type and organization have nothing else at
this time.

If/when more data is released, will post.

Big John