Using the magenta circles

A friend recently asked me to explain the magenta circles seen around
numerous airports on sectionals. It got me to thinking about how
useful they are. Personally, if the weather isn't good enough to fly
VFR in Class E airspace, I'm not going to fly VFR, even if it is legal
in Class G airspace. So, for me, it is pointless knowing where the
boundary is between Class E and Class G airspace.

But I was curious to know if there are pilots that take full advantage
of this distinction. Does anyone actually make use of the Class E/G
boundaries depicted on sectionals? If so, how? I suspect the most
common use is doing T&Gs in the pattern below 700 feet AGL when the
weather is marginal. Other uses?

On 2 Apr 2004 05:53:20 -0800, (Ace
Pilot) wrote:

A friend recently asked me to explain the magenta circles seen around
numerous airports on sectionals. It got me to thinking about how
useful they are. Personally, if the weather isn't good enough to fly
VFR in Class E airspace, I'm not going to fly VFR, even if it is legal
in Class G airspace. So, for me, it is pointless knowing where the
boundary is between Class E and Class G airspace.

But I was curious to know if there are pilots that take full advantage
of this distinction. Does anyone actually make use of the Class E/G
boundaries depicted on sectionals? If so, how? I suspect the most
common use is doing T&Gs in the pattern below 700 feet AGL when the
weather is marginal. Other uses?


The magenta line doesn't indicate a boundary between E and G space.
The magenta indicates Class E with a floor of 700 feet. The outside
of this magenta area is Class E with a floor of 1200 feet. A blue
line indicates the border between Class E with a floor of 1200 feet
and Class G. No pure Class G where I am. I can only find that under
the other classes. Note: I am not a CFI and could easily be wrong
about this.
Rich Russell

"Richard Russell" wrote in message
...

The magenta line doesn't indicate a boundary between E and G space.
The magenta indicates Class E with a floor of 700 feet. The outside
of this magenta area is Class E with a floor of 1200 feet.


And also a Class G area with a ceiling of 1200' AGL, so the magenta vignette
does indicate a boundary between Class E and G airspace.



A blue line indicates the border between Class E with a floor of 1200 feet
and Class G.


Not where it abuts Class E airspace with a floor 700' AGL.



No pure Class G where I am. I can only find that under
the other classes.


What Class G airspace doesn't fit that description?

"Richard Russell" wrote in message
...


The magenta line doesn't indicate a boundary between E and G space.
The magenta indicates Class E with a floor of 700 feet. The outside
of this magenta area is Class E with a floor of 1200 feet. A blue
line indicates the border between Class E with a floor of 1200 feet
and Class G. No pure Class G where I am. I can only find that under
the other classes. Note: I am not a CFI and could easily be wrong
about this.
Rich Russell

He was talking about magenta circles, which indicates to me that he is
talking about class E airspace that goes to the surface. Either that, or he
is talking about class C airspace. Beyond that, I have a tough time figuring
out what he is talking about. The magenta shaded lines that indicate class E
to 700 feet are rarely circles, although I can think of a few airports in
eastern Washington that are like that. We do have some class G boundaries
around here, particularly over the Olympic Peninsula.

There are people who try to remain in class G airspace in order to stay VFR,
including those in the pattern, but I have found it to be impractical in
many respects. If it is that bad you spend too much time dodging clouds to
get any serious pattern work done. The terrain around here is very
mountainous, which severely restricts how far you can fly and stay VFR in
weather like that. In this area it seems mostly useful to seaplanes and
charter pilots flying around the San Juan Islands.

The only time I use the magenta circles is to let me know when I am
approaching the airport. Unfortunately, a lot of the airports around here
don't do a good job of maintaining the circles, and they can be hard to see
at night or in poor visibility. Although the trees on the circle were
generally logged off when the magenta was first applied, some of these areas
have not been maintained since and are completely reforested. It is very
difficult to pick out the remains of the magenta circle on the forest floor.
I prefer the lighted circles which you bring up with PCL. It feels good to
come home to a nice ring of magenta lights late at night after a long day's
flying. :-)

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

He was talking about magenta circles, which indicates to me that he is
talking about class E airspace that goes to the surface.


Class E surface areas are depicted by segmented magenta circles. He
referred to Class G airspace below 700', so he was clearly talking about
magenta vignette.



Either that, or he is talking about class C airspace. Beyond that, I have
a
tough time figuring out what he is talking about. The magenta shaded lines
that indicate class E to 700 feet are rarely circles, although I can think
of
a few airports in eastern Washington that are like that.


It depends where you are, but circular magenta vignette is common.

"Ace Pilot" wrote in message =
But I was curious to know if there are pilots that take full advantage
of this distinction. Does anyone actually make use of the Class E/G
boundaries depicted on sectionals? If so, how? I suspect the most
common use is doing T&Gs in the pattern below 700 feet AGL when the
weather is marginal. Other uses?

Those circles aren't to keep VFR pilots safe when the weather is marginal.
They are to lower the floor of controlled airspace for the benefit of IFR
pilots.

This accomplishes two things:
1. Allows ATC to provide control to lower altitudes, primarily
separation from other IFR aircraft.
2. Makes sure any there is sufficient visibility / cloud clearance
for visual separation techniques to be used between any
VFR aircraft that might be present.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

Those circles aren't to keep VFR pilots safe when the weather is marginal.
They are to lower the floor of controlled airspace for the benefit of IFR
pilots.

This accomplishes two things:
1. Allows ATC to provide control to lower altitudes, primarily
separation from other IFR aircraft.
2. Makes sure any there is sufficient visibility / cloud clearance
for visual separation techniques to be used between any
VFR aircraft that might be present.


Changing weather has no effect on the floor of controlled airspace.

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:26:52 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Richard Russell" wrote in message
.. .

The magenta line doesn't indicate a boundary between E and G space.
The magenta indicates Class E with a floor of 700 feet. The outside
of this magenta area is Class E with a floor of 1200 feet.


And also a Class G area with a ceiling of 1200' AGL, so the magenta vignette
does indicate a boundary between Class E and G airspace.



A blue line indicates the border between Class E with a floor of 1200 feet
and Class G.


Not where it abuts Class E airspace with a floor 700' AGL.



No pure Class G where I am. I can only find that under
the other classes.


What Class G airspace doesn't fit that description?


I noted that Class G exists under the controlled spaces. I should
have been more clear but my intent was to delineate vertical
separations, not horizontal.

Also, when referring to "pure" Classs G I should have been more clear
although I would be surprised if you didn't understand my intent. The
Class G that I was referring to is where it is G up to the 14,000'
Class E threshold (and of course the A above).
Rich Russell

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:40:43 -0800, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"Richard Russell" wrote in message
.. .


The magenta line doesn't indicate a boundary between E and G space.
The magenta indicates Class E with a floor of 700 feet. The outside
of this magenta area is Class E with a floor of 1200 feet. A blue
line indicates the border between Class E with a floor of 1200 feet
and Class G. No pure Class G where I am. I can only find that under
the other classes. Note: I am not a CFI and could easily be wrong
about this.
Rich Russell

He was talking about magenta circles, which indicates to me that he is
talking about class E airspace that goes to the surface. Either that, or he
is talking about class C airspace. Beyond that, I have a tough time figuring
out what he is talking about. The magenta shaded lines that indicate class E
to 700 feet are rarely circles, although I can think of a few airports in
eastern Washington that are like that. We do have some class G boundaries
around here, particularly over the Olympic Peninsula.
snipped


I'm not sure what he meant by circles either, but I took it to mean
the large Class E vignettes that are generally made up of sections of
circles in a sort of unrefined cloudlike shape. I don't know about
the rest of the country, but in the east they're all over the place.
Rich Russell

"Richard Russell" wrote in message
...

I noted that Class G exists under the controlled spaces. I should
have been more clear but my intent was to delineate vertical
separations, not horizontal.


Magenta vignette denotes a vertical separation between Class E and Class G
airspace.



Also, when referring to "pure" Classs G I should have been more clear
although I would be surprised if you didn't understand my intent.


One can respond to your words, but not to your intent.



The Class G that I was referring to is where it is G up to the 14,000'
Class E threshold (and of course the A above).


14,500