Lost Paperwork?

I just looked at an ad in Trade a plane.
It's a Cessna Cardinal, 1968 (fairly cheap)with no paperwork which means to
me, no logs.
Besides the obvious, what kind of hassles is there to lost logs?
If I were to purchase this plane, it would be with the intention of doing a
ground-up resto.after a structural blessing by my A&P.
Say I got it, put in new avionics, new engine, prop overhauled, ADs complied
with, fresh paint and interior. What else am I faced with? Any insurance
hassles?
I really like the Cardinals and see this as a possible opportunity since
Cessna won't make any more of them.

Marty

If you gotta have a Cardinal avoid the 68's. If it has the 150 hp engine it
is a real dog.



"Marty" wrote in message
...
I just looked at an ad in Trade a plane.
It's a Cessna Cardinal, 1968 (fairly cheap)with no paperwork which means
to
me, no logs.
Besides the obvious, what kind of hassles is there to lost logs?
If I were to purchase this plane, it would be with the intention of doing
a
ground-up resto.after a structural blessing by my A&P.
Say I got it, put in new avionics, new engine, prop overhauled, ADs
complied
with, fresh paint and interior. What else am I faced with? Any insurance
hassles?
I really like the Cardinals and see this as a possible opportunity since
Cessna won't make any more of them.

Marty

If you want REAL information about Cardinals go to the type-group web
site:

www.cardinalflyers.com

They have more facts and data on Cardinals than any other source in
the world. I have owned a Cardinal RG '75 for over a year now, and
they have already saved me several thousand dollars.
They have an excellent pre-buy guide,

- Steve


On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 23:16:55 -0600, "Newps"
wrote:

If you gotta have a Cardinal avoid the 68's. If it has the 150 hp engine it
is a real dog.



"Marty" wrote in message
...
I just looked at an ad in Trade a plane.
It's a Cessna Cardinal, 1968 (fairly cheap)with no paperwork which means
to
me, no logs.
Besides the obvious, what kind of hassles is there to lost logs?
If I were to purchase this plane, it would be with the intention of doing
a
ground-up resto.after a structural blessing by my A&P.
Say I got it, put in new avionics, new engine, prop overhauled, ADs
complied
with, fresh paint and interior. What else am I faced with? Any insurance
hassles?
I really like the Cardinals and see this as a possible opportunity since
Cessna won't make any more of them.

Marty

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 23:47:06 -0500, "Marty"
wrote:

I just looked at an ad in Trade a plane.
It's a Cessna Cardinal, 1968 (fairly cheap)with no paperwork which means to
me, no logs.
Besides the obvious, what kind of hassles is there to lost logs?
If I were to purchase this plane, it would be with the intention of doing a
ground-up resto.after a structural blessing by my A&P.
Say I got it, put in new avionics, new engine, prop overhauled, ADs complied
with, fresh paint and interior. What else am I faced with? Any insurance
hassles?
I really like the Cardinals and see this as a possible opportunity since
Cessna won't make any more of them.

If you want a cheap plane to fly for many years - a no log plane might
be an ok deal. Just make sure to have an A&P do a very thorough
prebuy (might as well make it an annual inspectinon).

However, the real problem with no log planes presents itself when you
go to sell the plane. Potential buyers avoid 'no log' planes like the
plague. It may take several months to sell, and then you will be very
lucky to get a good price. If you buy a 'no log' plane and upgrade it
as you suggest, you will be lucky to get 40 cents on the dollar.

-Nathan

"Newps" wrote in message
...
If you gotta have a Cardinal avoid the 68's. If it has the 150 hp engine
it
is a real dog.



Hard to believe they put anything less than 180hp in them isn't it?
This one has 180hp with constant speed prop and I'd actually like more than
that.

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 23:47:06 -0500, "Marty"
wrote:
If you want a cheap plane to fly for many years - a no log plane might
be an ok deal. Just make sure to have an A&P do a very thorough
prebuy (might as well make it an annual inspectinon).

This is a possibility.

However, the real problem with no log planes presents itself when you
go to sell the plane. Potential buyers avoid 'no log' planes like the
plague. It may take several months to sell, and then you will be very
lucky to get a good price. If you buy a 'no log' plane and upgrade it
as you suggest, you will be lucky to get 40 cents on the dollar.

-Nathan

Right, and Cardinals aren't commanding big prices as it is.

"Marty" wrote in message ...
I just looked at an ad in Trade a plane.
It's a Cessna Cardinal, 1968 (fairly cheap)with no paperwork which means to
me, no logs.
Besides the obvious, what kind of hassles is there to lost logs?
If I were to purchase this plane, it would be with the intention of doing a
ground-up resto.after a structural blessing by my A&P.
Say I got it, put in new avionics, new engine, prop overhauled, ADs complied
with, fresh paint and interior. What else am I faced with? Any insurance
hassles?
I really like the Cardinals and see this as a possible opportunity since
Cessna won't make any more of them.

I think the airframe can be ok with nothing more than an expensive
search of all ADs since the begining of time, ensure they are all
done, and ensure you have a current annual, transponder, ELT, etc sign
off.

The only thing the insurance co's really are concerned about is the
hours on the engine. If you get an overhaul they'll be happy (they
really only care about SMOH time).

Be aware that there may be some pretty expensive ADs that haven't been
done. Do you know if the actual maintenance was done well (did the
widow just throw out the logs or was the last owner a rebel?).

I wouldn't worry about resale value, since that should already be
taken into account when you pay for the plane. If it reduces the value
of the plane, you'll resell it for less, but you should also pay less.
That should work out as long as you don't over pay with this in mind.

BTW: In my opinion, if you have to fly a Cessna, the fix gear Cardinal
is not a bad one to have. They do run better with a 200hp
conversion though. I flew a 150hp one for a while and I felt like I
was hitting cows in the head on take off. Some have put turbo charged
engines in them and use them as high altitude travel planes.
-Robert

-Robert

I wouldn't worry about resale value, since that should already be
taken into account when you pay for the plane.


but it won't be taken into account for all the stuff you put into it.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Marty" wrote in message ...
I just looked at an ad in Trade a plane.
It's a Cessna Cardinal, 1968 (fairly cheap)with no paperwork which means to
me, no logs.

We looked at an early 150hp Cardinal before buying our 172L. Test-flew
it in the sweltering humidity and heat of Houston in August and was so
happy it finally got off the ground and wallowed its way into the air.
It was an OK bird I guess, nice and roomy but now I know firsthand why
everyone says they need a 180hp engine. They really do.

With no logbooks however, IMHO it's only worth what Wentworth would
buy it for as salvage.

(Teacherjh) wrote in message ...

I wouldn't worry about resale value, since that should already be
taken into account when you pay for the plane.


but it won't be taken into account for all the stuff you put into it.

But we're just talking about the price impact of not having all the
paper work. Any thing else you put into it may not recover cost (GPS,
avionics, etc)

-Robert