The cost of war

Do you even know what the definition of Fascism is? Do you realize how
oxymoronic using the phrase "Islamo-Fascist" makes you appear?

Actually, that wonderfully descriptive term was coined (or, at least,
repeated here) by this group's very own Don Tabor, DDS.

I think is quite nicely sums up the enemy.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Tom Fleischman wrote:

It's a meaningless oxymoron and when you use it, it makes you look
really stupid.

To understand this, he'd need to know what the islam is really about and
what fascism was really about. Both is asking a little too much from
Jay. (And neither a quick google search nor watching Fox news will help
in this case.)

Stefan

To understand this, he'd need to know what the islam is really about and
what fascism was really about. Both is asking a little too much from
Jay. (And neither a quick google search nor watching Fox news will help
in this case.)

Well, fair enough -- educate me.

What don't I know (as a college grad with a minor in history) about Fascism
and Islam?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article IpK5d.123085$D%.79913@attbi_s51, "Jay Honeck"
writes:


Do you even know what the definition of Fascism is? Do you realize how
oxymoronic using the phrase "Islamo-Fascist" makes you appear?

Actually, that wonderfully descriptive term was coined (or, at least,
repeated here) by this group's very own Don Tabor, DDS.

I think is quite nicely sums up the enemy.
--

Why, thanks for remembering!

It is not original to me, but I did first describe it here.

Fascism is a widely misused term. It does not mean 'Italian' or "Right Wing.'
If you want to get a good grounding in what it really means, read Hayeks' THE
ROAD TO SERFDOM.

But the essential elements a

An authoritarian power structure,

a collectivist economic system, (socialism or feudalism both work)

a central ethnic, religious or nationalist identity,

and correspondingly, an expansionist foriegn policy.

Fascist regimes are inavariably aggressive because they cannot compete with
individualist (capitalist) economies, and cannot maintain their authoritiarian
power structure in the face of being outstripped by their 'inferiors.'

Our Islamoafascist enemies fit those criteria to perfection. Their religion and
culture hold them to be superior to us, yet even with all their oil wealth, the
29 Arabic speaking countries COMBINED GDP barely equals that of Spain. Their
culture is a total failure in the marketplace, the best of their youth yearns
to emmigrate to anywhere else, but they are unwilling to change their ways
because their invisible friend promises them rewards in the next life if the
hold tight to the 6th century feudalism their religion commands.

So, unable to compete with us for the hearts and minds of their children, they
must destroy us, or force us to accept their ways, so there will be no one
around to envy.

Peace is unlikely, but I'm not so sure I want peace with folks who think
shooting fleeing children in the back is acceptable for any reason.

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

Jay Honeck wrote:

What don't I know (as a college grad with a minor in history) about Fascism
and Islam?

I really would like to, but I fear it's too complex for usenet.

To understand fascism, and why it was so successful in the thirties, you
need to have a thorough understanding of the situation in Europe at that
time (mental, political and economical) ans how it developed. Fascism
didn't drop from the sky (as didn't terrorism, btw.) but evolved over
decades as result of a complex reality. (Actually, this shouldn't
surprize anybody.) To understand, you need to read many sources, to try
to really go into people of that time ... which is difficult half a
centruy later, let alone for a non-European. Get me right, I don't blame
you if you're not willing to spend the effort (rather go flying!), but
then please be careful with the word fascism. All I can say is when you
find a book that breaks down fascism to three or four principles, it
must be wrong. It's more comlpex than the hollywood films about WWII.

With Islam it the same, just even more comlex. Over the centuries and in
many countries there have evolved lots of different scools and trends,
from the wahabits to modern and tolerant ones, and mostly it's very
difficult to tell religion from social tradition. It's even more complex
because the sources are not clear: There's the coran, of course, but
then there is the sunna, the hadiths, the fatwas, and different scools
don't accept the same sources. What would you say if somebody told you:
Hey, yesterday I've met a Mormon (or an Amish, or whatever), now I know
what Christianity is all about? But exactly this takes place in respect
of the Islam. When I claim that I know quite a bit about fascism, I
don't so in respect of the Islam. Granted, I have a few islamic friends
from different countries, so I have some idea, but by no means I
understand it.

Ok, you say, all this is interesting and nice, but I didn't explain
anything? You're right. I think I could explain fascism to some extent,
given enough time (but certainly not on usenet), and I know that I just
barely have a remote idea of the Islam. All I say is stop using such
meaningless buzzwords like "islamofascist", which, as somebody else
stated, is an oxymoron at best. It's a buzzword, created to combine two
alleged synonyms of "the evil" into one word. Granted, it sells well,
especially these days in the USA, but it's just a meaningless buzzword
as there were others some years ago and will be others some years from now.

Stefan

"Tom Fleischman" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
In article 8nU5d.125586$D%.2687@attbi_s51, Jay Honeck
wrote:

To understand this, he'd need to know what the islam is really about
and
what fascism was really about. Both is asking a little too much from
Jay. (And neither a quick google search nor watching Fox news will
help
in this case.)

Well, fair enough -- educate me.

What don't I know (as a college grad with a minor in history) about
Fascism
and Islam?

Simply put Fascism is a system whereby the govenment promotes corporate
business interests over the interests of it's citizens combined with a
media which lies to the people in support of both the govenment and the
business interests. This form of govenment is usually totalitarian,
although it doesn't have to be, and is fiercely nationalistic in
nature.


Baloney. Fascism implies strong centralized governmental control over
business and production. Private corporate business interests are threatened
by Fascistic governments. Most corporations will be nationalized.

Islam is a religion. It advocates neither business interests nor
nationalalism. The only thing that the two could possibly have in
common is a totalitarian leadership.

To combine these terms to describe any group of people or "enemy" is
oxymoronic.

Not if the group is using religion to promote Fascism. In this case the
description of Islamofascist is very apt. These people want strong central,
even totalitarian, government control, are highly nationalistic, are
militarily aggressive, and deeply religious, though it is a perverted,
twisted form of Islam. Even the supposedly secular Saddam Hussein constantly
used Islamic references in his attempts to motivate the people to war.
Hussein openly admires Hitler, as does bin Laden. These particular Fascists
are also extremely anti-Jewish (they are themselves Semites, so calling them
anti-Semitic would be odd). Any examination of Iraq, Iran, Syria and
Chechnya will show numerous social and economic parallels to pre-war Germany
and Italy, including widespread use of private armies, blaming Jews and the
United States for all the world's problems and their problems specifically,
identification of the leader with state religion, etc.

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:

What don't I know (as a college grad with a minor in history) about
Fascism
and Islam?

I really would like to, but I fear it's too complex for usenet.

To understand fascism, and why it was so successful in the thirties, you
need to have a thorough understanding of the situation in Europe at that
time (mental, political and economical) ans how it developed. Fascism
didn't drop from the sky (as didn't terrorism, btw.) but evolved over
decades as result of a complex reality. (Actually, this shouldn't
surprize anybody.) To understand, you need to read many sources, to try
to really go into people of that time ... which is difficult half a
centruy later, let alone for a non-European. Get me right, I don't blame
you if you're not willing to spend the effort (rather go flying!), but
then please be careful with the word fascism. All I can say is when you
find a book that breaks down fascism to three or four principles, it
must be wrong. It's more comlpex than the hollywood films about WWII.

Your definition of Fascism is so narrow that it no longer exists, nor is it
anywhere near generally accepted definitions.

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:

What don't I know (as a college grad with a minor in history) about
Fascism
and Islam?

I really would like to, but I fear it's too complex for usenet.

Don't know why I am getting into this but here goes.

Sometimes issues are complex but yet need timely resolution. Then the only
solution is that of Alexander's with that fiendishly complex knot.

Here is link to interesting two year old article discussing the cost of war
(or the cost of restrained war).

http://www.nationalreview.com/script...nson111502.asp

Cheers
Howard
C182P


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Tom Fleischman wrote:
In article IpK5d.123085$D%.79913@attbi_s51, Jay Honeck
wrote:


Do you even know what the definition of Fascism is? Do you realize how
oxymoronic using the phrase "Islamo-Fascist" makes you appear?

Actually, that wonderfully descriptive term was coined (or, at least,
repeated here) by this group's very own Don Tabor, DDS.

I think is quite nicely sums up the enemy.


It's a meaningless oxymoron and when you use it, it makes you look
really stupid.

Just lettin' ya know...

Actually, it's a spin off of an episode of Red Dwarf where the phrase,
"crypto-fascist" is used repeatedly.

Antonio ;-)

C J Campbell wrote:

Your definition of Fascism is so narrow that it no longer exists, nor is it
anywhere near generally accepted definitions.

I wasn't aware I gave a definition. Even more, I explicitely said I
wouldn't do so.

Stefan