Who has started implementing the TSA rule?

OK, flight instructors, have you been doing your patriotic duty since midday
Wednesday? Remember, under the thoroughly amended rule:

1) If a non-citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly, you
tell them that they have to submit to TSA: name, including aliases, their
brand new TSA ID number, a copy of their passport and visa, all the
information needed to get the visa and passport and previous visas and
passports, their country of birth, all current and past countries of
citizenship, their date of birth, dates and location of training, type of
training, fingerprints, address, phone number, addresses for the past 5
years, gender, a $130 fee, and any other information required by TSA. Then
you have to notify TSA about their request and submit a photograph. Then,
and only then, can you let them in your hot air balloon.

2) If a citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly, you have
to determine and continue to determine they are a citizen, and make a
specifically worded entry in their logbook (which they don't have yet)
referring to 49 CFR 1552.3(h). Everyone knows the wording, right?

Any CFIs want to recount how they have managed their newest students? I
don't expect to hear from anyone who has not done the above - after all,
you'd be admitting to breaking the law.

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!

Is it just me or do you see CFI's avoiding all non-US students.
Why deal with all this crap that can come back to haunt you
when you forgot to "dot an i, or cross a t". What's next....CFI's being
accused of "profiling"? Or what if a non-US citizen claims to be
one and gives you a bogus passport or birth certificate? Are
we going to lose all of our certificates over this?



"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
OK, flight instructors, have you been doing your patriotic duty since
midday
Wednesday? Remember, under the thoroughly amended rule:

1) If a non-citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly, you
tell them that they have to submit to TSA: name, including aliases, their
brand new TSA ID number, a copy of their passport and visa, all the
information needed to get the visa and passport and previous visas and
passports, their country of birth, all current and past countries of
citizenship, their date of birth, dates and location of training, type of
training, fingerprints, address, phone number, addresses for the past 5
years, gender, a $130 fee, and any other information required by TSA. Then
you have to notify TSA about their request and submit a photograph. Then,
and only then, can you let them in your hot air balloon.

2) If a citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly, you
have
to determine and continue to determine they are a citizen, and make a
specifically worded entry in their logbook (which they don't have yet)
referring to 49 CFR 1552.3(h). Everyone knows the wording, right?

Any CFIs want to recount how they have managed their newest students? I
don't expect to hear from anyone who has not done the above - after all,
you'd be admitting to breaking the law.

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!

As I understand it, the "training" required of CFI's by the TSA rule, still
isn't available. Last I looked at their website it said by the end of Oct
it would be posted. Anybody know different?

Jim


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 10/22/2004

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
OK, flight instructors, have you been doing your patriotic duty since
midday
Wednesday? Remember, under the thoroughly amended rule:

1) If a non-citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly, you
tell them that they have to submit to TSA: name, including aliases, their
brand new TSA ID number, a copy of their passport and visa, all the
information needed to get the visa and passport and previous visas and
passports, their country of birth, all current and past countries of
citizenship, their date of birth, dates and location of training, type of
training, fingerprints, address, phone number, addresses for the past 5
years, gender, a $130 fee, and any other information required by TSA. Then
you have to notify TSA about their request and submit a photograph. Then,
and only then, can you let them in your hot air balloon.

2) If a citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly, you
have
to determine and continue to determine they are a citizen, and make a
specifically worded entry in their logbook (which they don't have yet)
referring to 49 CFR 1552.3(h). Everyone knows the wording, right?

Any CFIs want to recount how they have managed their newest students? I
don't expect to hear from anyone who has not done the above - after all,
you'd be admitting to breaking the law.

Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a small number of
flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to get a M1 visa.
Without this form and the visa, students will not get past immigration.

Therefore there should not be many CFIs with non resident alien students
unless they are in a M1 approved flight school. These schools are used to
handling the necessary paperwork and this only represents a bit more.

Unlikely to be a problem therefore for the independent freelance instructor
without M1 approval as having non resident alien students is a breech of
regulations by both the instructor and the student who would get summarily
deported and possibly banned from future entry to the US.

What I would like to see is that the TSA requirements replace the visa
requirements and therefore provide more instructors with legal instruction
opportunities for non resident aliens. The added paperwork is surely worth
having a better business opportunity. After all I know of many potential
students who would like to train anywhere but in the Florida pilot
factories; but can you find an M1 approved school outside Florida and Lower
California....... very difficult. I for one would love to do some mountain
flying training up in Oregon but it is impossible legally as a non resident
alien. (unless someone knows of an M1 approved school) However, I can rent a
plane in Oregon.

Just some thoughts to see how there could be something good to come of this.

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
OK, flight instructors, have you been doing your patriotic duty since
midday
Wednesday? Remember, under the thoroughly amended rule:

snip

Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a small number of
flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to get a M1 visa.
Without this form and the visa, students will not get past immigration.

Therefore there should not be many CFIs with non resident alien students
unless they are in a M1 approved flight school. These schools are used to
handling the necessary paperwork and this only represents a bit more.

No doubt, if you restrict your analysis to nonresidents.

But the TSA has affirmed that their rule applies to resident aliens also. We
form 13% of the pilot population, and we not only got past immigration, we
have jobs and homes here. That means we form 13% of the people walking on
the door of every flight school and independent instructor in the country
(unless you want to reduce that number by those who have foreign
certificates; I haven't even thought whether their conversion to a US
certificate would be covered by the rule).

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!

my flight school has started implementation....

-lance smith

I have not really been that concerned about it as I am not currently taking
new students, nor will I be taking any more on for the rest of the winter.

Dave.. the specific wording required for the log book was posted on 20
October.
Make the entry and sell them the $5 logbook as part of the intro package.

I think you need to get current?
BT

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
OK, flight instructors, have you been doing your patriotic duty since
midday
Wednesday? Remember, under the thoroughly amended rule:

1) If a non-citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly, you
tell them that they have to submit to TSA: name, including aliases, their
brand new TSA ID number, a copy of their passport and visa, all the
information needed to get the visa and passport and previous visas and
passports, their country of birth, all current and past countries of
citizenship, their date of birth, dates and location of training, type of
training, fingerprints, address, phone number, addresses for the past 5
years, gender, a $130 fee, and any other information required by TSA. Then
you have to notify TSA about their request and submit a photograph. Then,
and only then, can you let them in your hot air balloon.

2) If a citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly, you
have
to determine and continue to determine they are a citizen, and make a
specifically worded entry in their logbook (which they don't have yet)
referring to 49 CFR 1552.3(h). Everyone knows the wording, right?

Any CFIs want to recount how they have managed their newest students? I
don't expect to hear from anyone who has not done the above - after all,
you'd be admitting to breaking the law.

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!

the security training require of ALL CfIs.. not just those instructing
non-citizens is not due until Jan.

That's why you can find it yet on the web site. And it is not the end of
October yet.. they still have until Friday.

BT

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
As I understand it, the "training" required of CFI's by the TSA rule,
still
isn't available. Last I looked at their website it said by the end of Oct
it would be posted. Anybody know different?

Jim


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 10/22/2004

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:50:12 +0200 (CEST) * -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY:
Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% * [sco 0.0000] * -0.5 AWL
AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list, Nomen Nescio
] wrote:

According to my local FBO, things are now on "hold" for the next 90 days.
I guess the Feds need time to figure out the meaning of what they wrote.


They need to re-check their sources.

z