helicopter tug glider launch

The regs seem to simply require experience while'towing a glider with an aircraft' and the U.S.regs don't seem to care what kind of aircraftis used. Tow with a blimp? Don'tthose things go something like maybe twentyknots tops? While towing gliders I've been quite concernedabout my 'noodle.' Yes I've been concernedabout catching on a runway light, rope in theprop during taxi, etc. But the idea of therope snapping back and wrapping the elevatoror rudder in flight has been a concern both as a towpilot and as a glider pilot. Prettyremote possibility, but a good reason fora nice weak link at the end of the towrope.Towing in a helicopter? My goodness! Thiswould REALLY scare me. Towrope in the rotor blades? Yikes! Did they have somethingweighty on the end of the towrope?Mark Boyd

I have read a report once in a (danish) gliding magazine, I think it was
from them World chamoinships once held in Lezno, Poland. the glider was a
Foka type. the trick is that you start with a tailglide.

jens S, bornholm denmark

"M B" skrev i en meddelelse
...
The regs seem to simply require experience while'towing a glider with an
aircraft' and the U.S.regs don't seem to care what kind of aircraftis used.
Tow with a blimp? Don'tthose things go something like maybe twentyknots
tops? While towing gliders I've been quite concernedabout my 'noodle.' Yes
I've been concernedabout catching on a runway light, rope in theprop during
taxi, etc. But the idea of therope snapping back and wrapping the
elevatoror rudder in flight has been a concern both as a towpilot and as a
glider pilot. Prettyremote possibility, but a good reason fora nice weak
link at the end of the towrope.Towing in a helicopter? My goodness!
Thiswould REALLY scare me. Towrope in the rotor blades? Yikes! Did they
have somethingweighty on the end of the towrope?Mark Boyd

WGC 1995 in Omarama NZ

the ASW24 started behind a Hughes 500 in low tow
accelerating to 120km/h
after reaching a height of approximately 500m AGL
the helicopter transited into vertical climb and the
ASW-24 just hanged on its Tost hook (attached to
the main wheel) upside down.
The glider pilot then released and came to safe airspeed
as if he would have lost speed just short of topping
a loop.

PS: the guys checked with Gerhard Waibel (the designer
of the Schleicher glider, if it would be safe to strain the
towing hook and the airframe in that way.

Chris



"Jim Culp" wrote in message
...


Who gives or knows of glider aerotows with choppers
in US ? or elsewhere ?

Where & contact info ?
Price for 2000ft tow ?

I saw it done by helicopter at Williston Florida (near
Gainesville) at airshow April 2003. Nice job, well
done.

The chopper was the tug aircraft for the glider;
taking it to 6000ft for start of glider aerobatic
routine.

No problemo.

Think the helicopter was a Bell47. Not sure. Anyway,
I thing I recall it was piston engined.

Yes, after vertical liftoff helicopter did rotate forward,
for forward propulsion lifting its tailboom, to keep
the tail rotor blades out of the towrope. Not a job
for an inattentive helicopter pilot.

Well, Ok ,,,,would you launch your glider by helicopter
aerotow ?

Here's a another query, for regulatory pundits:


Can a helicopter pilot be qualified for glider aerotow
with helicopter by aerotowing in airplane (assuming
he is airplane rated) ?

Or must his aerotow qualification in airplane be limited
to Airplane only ?

My thought is that since noone writing the rule requirements
in US ever conceived of helicopter aerotows of gliders
then there is nothing to prevent an airplane aerotow
qualification from being inclusive of and transferable
to launching a glider with any type powered aircraft.


Thus, if a blimp pilot had an aerotow qualification
gained in an airplane, and wth a blimp he wanted to
aerotow or gravity launch a glider, then he might do
so. He would be compliant with requlations. Yes
or no ?

Seems to me, for gravity launch of a glider suspended
suitably from a blimp or dirigible there would be no
launch capability requirement of the lighter than air
pilot .

The pilot of the lighter than air craft might only
need only his pilot certificate privileges in the lighter
than air craft (blimp or dirigible)
to do the feat.

Launching of glider by a lighter than air craft would
not be new.

The blimp pilot would not be the first to launch a
glider, as this was done for the glider pilot (USN)
Lt. Ralph S. Barnaby in 1930 at Lakehurst New Jersey
with the glider released at 3000ft. It was a successfully
done feat.

Dancing on clouds,

Keep it up!

Jim Culp USA
GatorCity, Florida
Std Libelle

just as long as it did not back release... "ouch"

"CH" wrote in message
...
WGC 1995 in Omarama NZ

the ASW24 started behind a Hughes 500 in low tow
accelerating to 120km/h
after reaching a height of approximately 500m AGL
the helicopter transited into vertical climb and the
ASW-24 just hanged on its Tost hook (attached to
the main wheel) upside down.
The glider pilot then released and came to safe airspeed
as if he would have lost speed just short of topping
a loop.

PS: the guys checked with Gerhard Waibel (the designer
of the Schleicher glider, if it would be safe to strain the
towing hook and the airframe in that way.

Chris



"Jim Culp" wrote in message
...


Who gives or knows of glider aerotows with choppers
in US ? or elsewhere ?

Where & contact info ?
Price for 2000ft tow ?

I saw it done by helicopter at Williston Florida (near
Gainesville) at airshow April 2003. Nice job, well
done.

The chopper was the tug aircraft for the glider;
taking it to 6000ft for start of glider aerobatic
routine.

No problemo.

Think the helicopter was a Bell47. Not sure. Anyway,
I thing I recall it was piston engined.

Yes, after vertical liftoff helicopter did rotate forward,
for forward propulsion lifting its tailboom, to keep
the tail rotor blades out of the towrope. Not a job
for an inattentive helicopter pilot.

Well, Ok ,,,,would you launch your glider by helicopter
aerotow ?

Here's a another query, for regulatory pundits:


Can a helicopter pilot be qualified for glider aerotow
with helicopter by aerotowing in airplane (assuming
he is airplane rated) ?

Or must his aerotow qualification in airplane be limited
to Airplane only ?

My thought is that since noone writing the rule requirements
in US ever conceived of helicopter aerotows of gliders
then there is nothing to prevent an airplane aerotow
qualification from being inclusive of and transferable
to launching a glider with any type powered aircraft.


Thus, if a blimp pilot had an aerotow qualification
gained in an airplane, and wth a blimp he wanted to
aerotow or gravity launch a glider, then he might do
so. He would be compliant with requlations. Yes
or no ?

Seems to me, for gravity launch of a glider suspended
suitably from a blimp or dirigible there would be no
launch capability requirement of the lighter than air
pilot .

The pilot of the lighter than air craft might only
need only his pilot certificate privileges in the lighter
than air craft (blimp or dirigible)
to do the feat.

Launching of glider by a lighter than air craft would
not be new.

The blimp pilot would not be the first to launch a
glider, as this was done for the glider pilot (USN)
Lt. Ralph S. Barnaby in 1930 at Lakehurst New Jersey
with the glider released at 3000ft. It was a successfully
done feat.

Dancing on clouds,

Keep it up!

Jim Culp USA
GatorCity, Florida
Std Libelle

At 03:42 09 September 2003, M B wrote:
The regs seem to simply require experience while'towing
a glider with an aircraft' and the U.S.regs don't seem
to care what kind of aircraftis used. Tow with a blimp?
Don'tthose things go something like maybe twentyknots
tops? While towing gliders I've been quite concernedabout
my 'noodle.' Yes I've been concernedabout catching
on a runway light, rope in theprop during taxi, etc.
But the idea of therope snapping back and wrapping
the elevatoror rudder in flight has been a concern
both as a towpilot and as a glider pilot. Prettyremote
possibility, but a good reason fora nice weak link
at the end of the towrope.Towing in a helicopter?
My goodness! Thiswould REALLY scare me. Towrope in
the rotor blades? Yikes! Did they have somethingweighty
on the end of the towrope?Mark Boyd



I believe the Royal Navy experimented with towing with
a helicopter in the 60's. If I recall rightly the main
problem mentioned, apart from maintaining separation
between ropes and rotors, was keeping the glider out
of the turbulence created by the helicopter. This needed
about half a mile of towrope.

From: Jim Culp
Date: 9/8/2003 2:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:



Who gives or knows of glider aerotows with choppers
in US ?

or elsewhere ?

Where & contact info ?

Price for 2000ft tow ?

I will tow you. price is $700 per hour. figure 8 minutes to start and get
hooked up and five minutes for tow and 8 mintues to land an shut down. Maybe a
tow by airplane is more cost effective?

Craig
MD 520N

Foka type. the trick is that you start with a tailglide.

Meaning you'll be in a whole lot of trouble if your rope breaks at low
altitude...
I think that the tow started as a traditional tow.

André

Bob Carlton (Silentwingsairshows.com) is currently doing about three
hellicopter tows a year with his Salto, although it's not as most of you are
imagining it. The hellicopter has 10 ft of chain dangling under it which the
rope is attached to. He lifts off and flies forwards and the glider does a
normal take off followed by a basicly normal tow.
-Mitch